4 ms·

Wikipedia's name policy is to include names that someone was notable under. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(people) https://en.wiki

Wikipedia's name policy is to include names that someone was notable under. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(people) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Biography#Changed_names https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Biog... This includes trans individuals, such as Chelsea Manning or Elliot Page, who have their birth name in their respective articles. For some reason, these Wikipedia editorial decisions are extra controversial around trans people, so Wikipedia has a MOS section to explicitly address this in the case of biographies of trans people: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Biography#Gender_identity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Biog...

listenallyall 4y ago
Elton John was notable as Reginald Kenneth Dwight?
- aidenn0 4y ago
  The notability requirement is specifically for transgender and non-binary individuals.
  - lynndotpy 4y ago
    This is not true either. The "Presumption in favor of privacy" section, especially the "Privacy of names" part might interest you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons#Presumption_in_favor_of_privacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_livin...
    - aidenn0 4y ago
      There's two separate concerns: 1. Privacy of names in general 2. Treatment of people who have changed their names. For #2 there is a specific rule dealing with deadnaming: > If a living transgender or non-binary person was not notable under a former name (a deadname), it should not be included in any page (including lists, redirects, disambiguation pages, category names, templates, etc.), even in quotations, even if reliable sourcing exists. Treat the pre-notability name as a privacy interest separate from (and often greater than) the person's current name.
      - lynndotpy 4y ago
        Ah yes, I think I misunderstood what you meant by the notability requirement. AFAIK there are no cis people with pre-notability name changes covered under the privacy interest guidelines.
  - listenallyall 4y ago
    Isn't that, itself, bias? Why wouldn't Muhammad Ali receive the same consideration, given that he considered his birth name representative of racial oppression?
    - aidenn0 4y ago
      1. Ali specifically is moot since he won an Olympic Gold Medal (and his first professional world championship) under his birth name. 2. If calling black Muslims by their birth names were currently used as a way of signalling racism, then I suspect WP would adopt a policy for that as well.
      - listenallyall 4y ago
        As has been noted, Admiral Levine had significant accomplishments under her birth name. The point is, Ali isn't even granted the possiblity of having his birth name unexposed, because ONLY transgender and non-binary individuals are eligible for non-exposure.
- zimpenfish 4y ago
  His career started in 1962 as RD and he legally changed his name to EJ in 1972. I think 10 years of being a reasonably famous musician under a name is notable, no?
  - listenallyall 4y ago
    By that logic, this is a rather impressive and notable CV, the majority of which was pre-transition: https://www.hhs.gov/about/leadership/rachel-levine.html https://www.hhs.gov/about/leadership/rachel-levine.html ADM Levine was a Professor of Pediatrics and Psychiatry at the Penn State College of Medicine. Her previous posts included: Vice-Chair for Clinical Affairs for the Department of Pediatrics, and Chief of the Division of Adolescent Medicine and Eating Disorders at the Penn State Hershey Medical Center.
fknorangesite 4y ago
> For some reason, these Wikipedia editorial decisions are extra controversial Because there is a significant group of people who will insist on using a trans person's birth name even if it's no longer correct, being deliberately hostile but trying to hide behind a thin veil of plausible deniability.

listenallyall 4y ago

Elton John was notable as Reginald Kenneth Dwight?

aidenn0 4y ago
The notability requirement is specifically for transgender and non-binary individuals.
- lynndotpy 4y ago
  This is not true either. The "Presumption in favor of privacy" section, especially the "Privacy of names" part might interest you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons#Presumption_in_favor_of_privacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_livin...
  - aidenn0 4y ago
    There's two separate concerns: 1. Privacy of names in general 2. Treatment of people who have changed their names. For #2 there is a specific rule dealing with deadnaming: > If a living transgender or non-binary person was not notable under a former name (a deadname), it should not be included in any page (including lists, redirects, disambiguation pages, category names, templates, etc.), even in quotations, even if reliable sourcing exists. Treat the pre-notability name as a privacy interest separate from (and often greater than) the person's current name.
    - lynndotpy 4y ago
      Ah yes, I think I misunderstood what you meant by the notability requirement. AFAIK there are no cis people with pre-notability name changes covered under the privacy interest guidelines.
- listenallyall 4y ago
  Isn't that, itself, bias? Why wouldn't Muhammad Ali receive the same consideration, given that he considered his birth name representative of racial oppression?
  - aidenn0 4y ago
    1. Ali specifically is moot since he won an Olympic Gold Medal (and his first professional world championship) under his birth name. 2. If calling black Muslims by their birth names were currently used as a way of signalling racism, then I suspect WP would adopt a policy for that as well.
    - listenallyall 4y ago
      As has been noted, Admiral Levine had significant accomplishments under her birth name. The point is, Ali isn't even granted the possiblity of having his birth name unexposed, because ONLY transgender and non-binary individuals are eligible for non-exposure.
zimpenfish 4y ago
His career started in 1962 as RD and he legally changed his name to EJ in 1972. I think 10 years of being a reasonably famous musician under a name is notable, no?
- listenallyall 4y ago
  By that logic, this is a rather impressive and notable CV, the majority of which was pre-transition: https://www.hhs.gov/about/leadership/rachel-levine.html https://www.hhs.gov/about/leadership/rachel-levine.html ADM Levine was a Professor of Pediatrics and Psychiatry at the Penn State College of Medicine. Her previous posts included: Vice-Chair for Clinical Affairs for the Department of Pediatrics, and Chief of the Division of Adolescent Medicine and Eating Disorders at the Penn State Hershey Medical Center.

fknorangesite 4y ago

> For some reason, these Wikipedia editorial decisions are extra controversial Because there is a significant group of people who will insist on using a trans person's birth name even if it's no longer correct, being deliberately hostile but trying to hide behind a thin veil of plausible deniability.