4 ms·

It's become increasingly clear that they don't want you plugging much of anything into these ports that's not a charger, and even that... they'd probably rather

It's become increasingly clear that they don't want you plugging much of anything into these ports that's not a charger, and even that... they'd probably rather force you to wireless. Forcing the connection through wifi means they have much, much more control, since it will almost always proxy through a server Apple owns, or use a proprietary stack only compatible with their devices. I understand the use-case. I can even appreciate it works well for some folks. But I just don't like the attitude.

lupire 4y ago
Why can't iOS proxy USB through its servers if it wants to?
Terretta 4y ago
> ... they don't want you plugging much of anything into these ... Apple have always sold docking dongles to support arbitrary things, generally video out and audio out (or combo e.g. HDMI), and a charger in. When not Apple, their accessory proxy, Belkin, has you covered generally at or before launch. Of course they also support both memory card dongle and most importantly (contrary to your assertion) they sell a first party generic USB-A dongle, and the iPad does good things (same things as a Mac) when you plug a camera or external storage in so accessories are supported by code path too. > Forcing the connection through wifi means they have much, much more control ... In fact, you can even plug in a generic TP-Link USB-C Ethernet and that works, taking priority over WiFi, and running at gigabit Ethernet speeds. Btw, highly recommend using these wired Ethernet connections when migrating from old iPad to new using iPad-to-iPad transfer (fastest, gets you done, so you don't rely on WiFi to bring everything down). You can do this with iPhones too. If you need to sync mass amounts of iCloud files or Photos, a wired Ethernet dongle also makes a huge difference due less to bandwidth and more to reduced latency on the sync chatter.
- horsawlarway 4y ago
  > In fact, you can even plug in a generic TP-Link USB-C Ethernet and that works, taking priority over WiFi, and running at gigabit Ethernet speeds. Decidedly not gigabit speeds... since USB 2 is capped at 480Mbps. Frankly - decent wifi since 802.11N, released in 2009, will outperform that dongle you just recommended. Since N is rated for 600Mpbs, and again... USB 2 caps out at just under 500Mbps. Honestly, the AX standard is fucking 20 times faster than that hardwired dongle. The device itself is slower - with the 10th gen model only supporting up to 2400Mpbs (https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/ipad-wi-fi-specification-details-depf9bb7e412/web https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/ipad-wi-fi-specif...) but you'll still do fuck loads better there than you would with the dongle capped at USB 2 speeds. --- Regardless - my point is that they don't want you doing direct device to device connections anywhere they can get away without it. Which is pretty clear, since they've completely hobbled a port that should be capable of up to 10Gbps down to 480 Mbps. Roughly 1/20th of the speed you should be getting out of it.
  - Terretta 4y ago
    First, the premise they don't want you to connect things is a stretch, you can even boot Macs as an external drive and Apple remain more than happy for you to tether an iDevice to a computer to manage it or as hotspot. Second, on the speeds, above I was giving a tip about device-to-device transfer, syncing small files, a very specific scenario. The lower latency and lack of jitter from hardwire, even rate limited hardware, tends to beat WiFi for real workload sustained throughput, for this task. Can also be better for online gaming, especially in the average American home with < 300 Mbps connections. (That dongle, USB-C, runs 980 Mbps attached to any Mac w/ USB-C as well as iPad Pro, so agree, USB 2 is a limiting factor, not the dongle.) Disagree about fuck loads better. The WiFi is very likely to be worse for most readers of this thread. Very few folks know how to position devices to get "AX" ratings from the side of the box, odds are also high someone's going to want to watch Netflix while that backup is transferring (the specific device-to-device scenario I'm talking about). TL;DR: Ratings from specs aren't the best way to estimate sustained 4 - 8 hour transfers of millions of files, and latency and jitter factor more than raw bandwidth for chatty workloads. If most users compare a WiFi file sync to wired file sync, they'll generally find the wired is several times faster, even at 480 Mbps. YMMV, particularly if you tune everything and put devices in fixed positions relative to radios.
    - Terretta 4y ago
      See also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33445178 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33445178
brewdad 4y ago
> ... they'd probably rather force you to wireless. IPads don't support wireless charging.

lupire 4y ago

Why can't iOS proxy USB through its servers if it wants to?

Terretta 4y ago

> ... they don't want you plugging much of anything into these ... Apple have always sold docking dongles to support arbitrary things, generally video out and audio out (or combo e.g. HDMI), and a charger in. When not Apple, their accessory proxy, Belkin, has you covered generally at or before launch. Of course they also support both memory card dongle and most importantly (contrary to your assertion) they sell a first party generic USB-A dongle, and the iPad does good things (same things as a Mac) when you plug a camera or external storage in so accessories are supported by code path too. > Forcing the connection through wifi means they have much, much more control ... In fact, you can even plug in a generic TP-Link USB-C Ethernet and that works, taking priority over WiFi, and running at gigabit Ethernet speeds. Btw, highly recommend using these wired Ethernet connections when migrating from old iPad to new using iPad-to-iPad transfer (fastest, gets you done, so you don't rely on WiFi to bring everything down). You can do this with iPhones too. If you need to sync mass amounts of iCloud files or Photos, a wired Ethernet dongle also makes a huge difference due less to bandwidth and more to reduced latency on the sync chatter.

horsawlarway 4y ago
> In fact, you can even plug in a generic TP-Link USB-C Ethernet and that works, taking priority over WiFi, and running at gigabit Ethernet speeds. Decidedly not gigabit speeds... since USB 2 is capped at 480Mbps. Frankly - decent wifi since 802.11N, released in 2009, will outperform that dongle you just recommended. Since N is rated for 600Mpbs, and again... USB 2 caps out at just under 500Mbps. Honestly, the AX standard is fucking 20 times faster than that hardwired dongle. The device itself is slower - with the 10th gen model only supporting up to 2400Mpbs (https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/ipad-wi-fi-specification-details-depf9bb7e412/web https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/ipad-wi-fi-specif...) but you'll still do fuck loads better there than you would with the dongle capped at USB 2 speeds. --- Regardless - my point is that they don't want you doing direct device to device connections anywhere they can get away without it. Which is pretty clear, since they've completely hobbled a port that should be capable of up to 10Gbps down to 480 Mbps. Roughly 1/20th of the speed you should be getting out of it.
- Terretta 4y ago
  First, the premise they don't want you to connect things is a stretch, you can even boot Macs as an external drive and Apple remain more than happy for you to tether an iDevice to a computer to manage it or as hotspot. Second, on the speeds, above I was giving a tip about device-to-device transfer, syncing small files, a very specific scenario. The lower latency and lack of jitter from hardwire, even rate limited hardware, tends to beat WiFi for real workload sustained throughput, for this task. Can also be better for online gaming, especially in the average American home with < 300 Mbps connections. (That dongle, USB-C, runs 980 Mbps attached to any Mac w/ USB-C as well as iPad Pro, so agree, USB 2 is a limiting factor, not the dongle.) Disagree about fuck loads better. The WiFi is very likely to be worse for most readers of this thread. Very few folks know how to position devices to get "AX" ratings from the side of the box, odds are also high someone's going to want to watch Netflix while that backup is transferring (the specific device-to-device scenario I'm talking about). TL;DR: Ratings from specs aren't the best way to estimate sustained 4 - 8 hour transfers of millions of files, and latency and jitter factor more than raw bandwidth for chatty workloads. If most users compare a WiFi file sync to wired file sync, they'll generally find the wired is several times faster, even at 480 Mbps. YMMV, particularly if you tune everything and put devices in fixed positions relative to radios.
  - Terretta 4y ago
    See also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33445178 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33445178

brewdad 4y ago

> ... they'd probably rather force you to wireless. IPads don't support wireless charging.