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Restriction vs non-restriction is a fairly clear axis. Not saying Europeans are wrong, but their laws are objectively more authoritarian when it comes to expres
by causality0 4y ago
Restriction vs non-restriction is a fairly clear axis. Not saying Europeans are wrong, but their laws are objectively more authoritarian when it comes to expression than American ones.
- jevgeni 4y agoNo they are not. They are designed to prevent authoritarianism. The Weimar republic with all of its absolute, unqualified freedoms didn't work out that great.
- causality0 4y agoFreedom is not defined by its consequences or its positive/negative outcome. Total freedom will of course devolve into a total shitshow but that doesn't make it not freedom.
- jevgeni 4y agoSeing how freedom is a human construct, it makes sense only in context of the human condition. So treating it as something separate from outcomes for people isn't helpful.
- nirimda 4y agoFreedom for whom? Total freedom means freedom for the strongest. Laws exists to ensure there is more freedom for the weaker and less freedom for the stronger. They prevent a stronger person from doing something that allows a weaker person to decide whether or not to do something else.
- causality0 4y agoI clearly said "when it comes to expression". There are many other ways in which Europeans are freer than Americans.
- MattPalmer1086 4y agoMore restrictive, for certain categories of speech, like hate speech, certainly. More authoritarian? As a European (well, in the UK - can I still consider myself European?), I do not find my right to speak, or speak truth to power to be restricted unncessarily. I see what is happening in the US with the rise of genuinely authoritarian politics fueled by misinformation and hate speech and find it genuinely disturbing. I guess a lot depends on the cultural context you grow up in.
- causality0 4y agoI do not find my right to speak, or speak truth to power to be restricted unncessarily Again, this is not an axis with good on one end and bad on the other. It's an axis between fewer limits and more limits.
- MattPalmer1086 4y agoI don't understand your point. I agree the law is more restrictive in Europe, but not restrictive in ways that limit my freedom in ways that matter to me. I was questioning why you see it as authoritarian. Are you saying that any law is authoritarian?
- causality0 4y agoI said it was "more authoritarian". Perhaps it was a poor choice of words.
- MattPalmer1086 4y agoThat could be it. I think this relates to the cultural context. People in the US are fierce defenders of free speech, and I can see why any attempt to restrict it there would be seen as authoritarian. In Europe, after the horrors of the second world war (and our entire history really) we aren't so keen to let people stir up hatred among us. So restricting things like that is not being imposed on the majority of us;we want those restrictions for the most part. So doesn't feel authoritarian at all.
- lm28469 4y agoYou might want to read the definition of the big words you use > Authoritarianism is a political system characterized by the rejection of political plurality, the use of strong central power to preserve the political status quo, and reductions in the rule of law, separation of powers, and democratic voting. Now if you think sharing nazi ideas on twitter is actually beneficial for society it's your call, Europeans made a choice a while ago about what they want to tolerate or not