3 ms·

> The US and Canadian government spend the same amount per person on healthcare but Canada has universal health care. As does the US, it just doesn't go by tha

by anamax 15y ago

> The US and Canadian government spend the same amount per person on healthcare but Canada has universal health care. As does the US, it just doesn't go by that name. Yes, there is free healthcare in the US. It isn't unlimited and you can buy better, but the same is true of Canada. However, I'll note that the US govt directly pays for about half of US healthcare (employees, etc.). If US govt healthcare will be so good, why isn't it? (Half of the population is enough to prove what it can do.) However, I'm willing to give Obama free rein over US govt paid healthcare to show how much better it can be. All I ask is that he spends the same per-person this year, 10% less per person the 2nd year, and 20% less the third year. (Since govt healthcare advocates claim far more savings to be had, this should be easy.) FWIW, pointing out how the US govt can't do healthcare isn't much of an argument for more US govt involvement in healthcare....

scarmig 15y ago
Going to the emergency room when you're on the brink of death doesn't count as "free healthcare," no matter how many times they beat their chest claiming it is. Emergency room healthcare is significantly more expensive than getting your blood pressure checked every couple of months. The right to healthcare isn't something that only applies to the emergency room.
- anamax 15y ago
  > Going to the emergency room when you're on the brink of death doesn't count as "free healthcare," So? You're ignoring medicaid and the free clinics that are in many areas. Medicaid is especially interesting because the vast majority of the "poor uninsured" are eligible and get signed up as soon as they actually need care. Both programs are fairly well publicized, so it's interesting that you mentioned emergency care as if it's the only option. And there's a third option which is less well known. With the possible exception of much of Alaska (due to population density), every county has a public hospital that provides free healthcare.
Retric 15y ago
why isn't it? Because in the vast majority of cases the US government does not provide heath care it provides heath insurance. The only large scale government healthcare in the US is the VA which costs a lot less than the rest of the US healthcare system because they pay for the doctors directly and cut out a lot of middle men that drive up costs everywhere else in the US system. They also have more leverage when it comes to malpractice and doctor pay etc. Now, your rhetorical idea that prices can drop 10% the first year and 10% the second would probably not be far off the mark. (Just compare VA costs with the average hospital etc.) But, in the end it's only going to save around 40% because until we see some real automation there is only so much costs you can cut before quality is impacted.
- anamax 15y ago
  > But, in the end it's only going to save around 40% because until we see some real automation there is only so much costs you can cut before quality is impacted. How can that be? After all, we have all these stories about significantly lower costs in other countries. Do they have automation that we don't?
  - Retric 15y ago
    Umm a 40% discount on healthcare is huge is ~16% of US GDP which is significantly higher than the rest of the world. For reference that's savings is larger than the interest on the national debt. In other words the money we waste on healthcare is like doubling the national debt. Or twice what we spend on oil. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:International_Comparison_-_Healthcare_spending_as_%25_GDP.png http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:International_Comparison_-... PS: Japan spends 1/2 what we do on healthcare despite a rapidly aging population. But, I would assume we would end up somewhere between them an Canada, because a significant portion of Canada's costs relate to it's vary low population density.

by anamax 15y ago

scarmig 15y ago

Going to the emergency room when you're on the brink of death doesn't count as "free healthcare," no matter how many times they beat their chest claiming it is. Emergency room healthcare is significantly more expensive than getting your blood pressure checked every couple of months. The right to healthcare isn't something that only applies to the emergency room.

anamax 15y ago
> Going to the emergency room when you're on the brink of death doesn't count as "free healthcare," So? You're ignoring medicaid and the free clinics that are in many areas. Medicaid is especially interesting because the vast majority of the "poor uninsured" are eligible and get signed up as soon as they actually need care. Both programs are fairly well publicized, so it's interesting that you mentioned emergency care as if it's the only option. And there's a third option which is less well known. With the possible exception of much of Alaska (due to population density), every county has a public hospital that provides free healthcare.

Retric 15y ago

why isn't it? Because in the vast majority of cases the US government does not provide heath care it provides heath insurance. The only large scale government healthcare in the US is the VA which costs a lot less than the rest of the US healthcare system because they pay for the doctors directly and cut out a lot of middle men that drive up costs everywhere else in the US system. They also have more leverage when it comes to malpractice and doctor pay etc. Now, your rhetorical idea that prices can drop 10% the first year and 10% the second would probably not be far off the mark. (Just compare VA costs with the average hospital etc.) But, in the end it's only going to save around 40% because until we see some real automation there is only so much costs you can cut before quality is impacted.

anamax 15y ago
> But, in the end it's only going to save around 40% because until we see some real automation there is only so much costs you can cut before quality is impacted. How can that be? After all, we have all these stories about significantly lower costs in other countries. Do they have automation that we don't?
- Retric 15y ago
  Umm a 40% discount on healthcare is huge is ~16% of US GDP which is significantly higher than the rest of the world. For reference that's savings is larger than the interest on the national debt. In other words the money we waste on healthcare is like doubling the national debt. Or twice what we spend on oil. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:International_Comparison_-_Healthcare_spending_as_%25_GDP.png http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:International_Comparison_-... PS: Japan spends 1/2 what we do on healthcare despite a rapidly aging population. But, I would assume we would end up somewhere between them an Canada, because a significant portion of Canada's costs relate to it's vary low population density.