4 ms·

> Exactly. This is what the rest of the world usually says on the first encounter with "tips culture" in the US. I think my shock was greater when I discovered

by otikik 4y ago

> Exactly. This is what the rest of the world usually says on the first encounter with "tips culture" in the US. I think my shock was greater when I discovered that lobbying in the US means "literal legal bribery". In a lot of the western world that word it means things "having meetings" and perhaps "organizing PR campaigns". Straight up giving money to politicians is against the law.

Aunche 4y ago
>I think my shock was greater when I discovered that lobbying in the US means "literal legal bribery". This is what the internet thinking lobbying means because they just want to be angry at a thing without bothering to learn about it because that would expose their own political apathy. Lobbying in the US means the exact same things that it means in the rest of the world. Companies will donate a few thousand dollars, so that a legislature will hear them out, but the legislature doesn't have to listen to them. There is some sketchy stuff going on with campaign finance for sure, but it's no where near as bad as "legalized bribery."
- otikik 4y ago
  > a few thousand dollars You might want to revise that assumption.
  - Aunche 4y ago
    You might want to revise your assumptions. These are the top lobbying recipients: https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/top-recipients https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/top-recipients. All things considered it's not a lot of money. The vast majority of lobbying spending goes towards mundane expenses like payroll at lobbying firms. The reason lobbying is so powerful is that regular people don't pay attention to actual legislation, so politicians spend too much of their time campaigning and end up outsourcing the hard work of writing legislation to the lobbyists. Regardless, it's definitely not "literal legalized bribery."
- otikik 4y ago
  Using your own resource: https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/top-spenders https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/top-spenders I believe that’s at least 4 orders of magnitude higher than “thousands of dollars”. I rest my case
  - Aunche 4y ago
    ...as I mentioned, the vast majority of this money goes towards things like paying people to read legislation, prepare presentations, and speak with politicians. It's not "literal legalized bribery."
jeffdn 4y ago
This may sound like a distinction without a difference, but it is explicitly illegal to give money directly to politicians in the United States. Lobbying is giving money to their campaign committees, which get them elected or re-elected. It is also explicitly very illegal for campaign committees to use their funds to do anything for the candidate -- there are a huge[0] number[1] of politicians[2] who have been severely[3] penalized for flouting campaign finance laws. Further, there are severe restrictions on what the campaign committee can use their money for, which is largely restricted to travel for the campaign, advertising, and paying campaign staff. These are just some recent examples of federal politicians who have run afoul of these laws, but they apply at all levels of government, as well as to staff (both campaign staff and the official staff of elected officials). [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_Cunningham https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_Cunningham [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan_D._Hunter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan_D._Hunter [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Jackson_Jr https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Jackson_Jr. [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Grimm_(politician) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Grimm_(politician)
- otikik 4y ago
  Yes it is totally a meaningless distinction to me. On the level of “this is not gambling, because we use a virtual currency (that can be purchased with dollars)” that is prevalent on mobile video games these days. It is gambling, just with extra steps. And it is bribery, just with extra steps.

by otikik 4y ago

Aunche 4y ago

>I think my shock was greater when I discovered that lobbying in the US means "literal legal bribery". This is what the internet thinking lobbying means because they just want to be angry at a thing without bothering to learn about it because that would expose their own political apathy. Lobbying in the US means the exact same things that it means in the rest of the world. Companies will donate a few thousand dollars, so that a legislature will hear them out, but the legislature doesn't have to listen to them. There is some sketchy stuff going on with campaign finance for sure, but it's no where near as bad as "legalized bribery."

otikik 4y ago
> a few thousand dollars You might want to revise that assumption.
- Aunche 4y ago
  You might want to revise your assumptions. These are the top lobbying recipients: https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/top-recipients https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/top-recipients. All things considered it's not a lot of money. The vast majority of lobbying spending goes towards mundane expenses like payroll at lobbying firms. The reason lobbying is so powerful is that regular people don't pay attention to actual legislation, so politicians spend too much of their time campaigning and end up outsourcing the hard work of writing legislation to the lobbyists. Regardless, it's definitely not "literal legalized bribery."
otikik 4y ago
Using your own resource: https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/top-spenders https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/top-spenders I believe that’s at least 4 orders of magnitude higher than “thousands of dollars”. I rest my case
- Aunche 4y ago
  ...as I mentioned, the vast majority of this money goes towards things like paying people to read legislation, prepare presentations, and speak with politicians. It's not "literal legalized bribery."

jeffdn 4y ago

This may sound like a distinction without a difference, but it is explicitly illegal to give money directly to politicians in the United States. Lobbying is giving money to their campaign committees, which get them elected or re-elected. It is also explicitly very illegal for campaign committees to use their funds to do anything for the candidate -- there are a huge[0] number[1] of politicians[2] who have been severely[3] penalized for flouting campaign finance laws. Further, there are severe restrictions on what the campaign committee can use their money for, which is largely restricted to travel for the campaign, advertising, and paying campaign staff. These are just some recent examples of federal politicians who have run afoul of these laws, but they apply at all levels of government, as well as to staff (both campaign staff and the official staff of elected officials). [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_Cunningham https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_Cunningham [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan_D._Hunter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan_D._Hunter [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Jackson_Jr https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Jackson_Jr. [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Grimm_(politician) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Grimm_(politician)

otikik 4y ago
Yes it is totally a meaningless distinction to me. On the level of “this is not gambling, because we use a virtual currency (that can be purchased with dollars)” that is prevalent on mobile video games these days. It is gambling, just with extra steps. And it is bribery, just with extra steps.