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I came to the comments to warn exactly this, perhaps more emphatically. Do not set up a legal entity in India. It will become a never-ending void where money a

I came to the comments to warn exactly this, perhaps more emphatically. Do not set up a legal entity in India. It will become a never-ending void where money and time go to die. The bureaucracy is hilariously inept and bloated, and if you are not willing to pay the bribes or for some entity to navigate the systemic corruption on your behalf, you will end up in OP's situation. Source: hired many Indian developers in recent years for a SV startup

dr_dshiv 4y ago
Wondering—is it easier to buy an existing entity?
- loudmax 4y ago
  Possibly, if for no other reason than the existing entity has the right connections, knows how to navigate the framework, and knows who to bribe to make things happen.
grepfru_it 4y ago
When I visited a Cisco office in India, I noticed there was a prominent notice of business application and listed the Indian owner of the company. I thought that was interesting and went digging into India law about ownership. When I came out of that rabbit hole I immediately had zero interest in starting up in India. Simply because of the bureaucracy and would be way more wink-wink-$$$-nudge-nudge than what I'm even used to today with my dealings in the West Indies. Then I read the article and by the time I got to the Irrigation NOC I was nodding my head 'yup, exactly what i expected'. It's very easy to read these requirements and agree that there are natural resources that (a) you don't want exploited and (b) want preserved, so all of these hurdles are necessary. But the timeline involved and the MULTIPLE bribes really drives home the fact that reforms are needed.
- dr_dshiv 4y ago
  Well, I expected this article to be about bribes, because I assume it happens a lot. However, there were no bribes. Does anyone have actual experience with bribes in India (not traffic police)? Edit: sorry, one person openly asked for a bribe, the Panchayat. I would like to understand more about this. Do they just ask for an amount?
  - elmomle 4y ago
    Not the OP but typically bureaucrats will talk about fees and fines, which continue without documentation of their purpose (at which point they are explicitly bribes). Baksheesh, whereby people expect a tip ahead of time if you want decent service, is quite common in India and is essentially another form of corruption, especially when practiced by police, bureaucrats, etc.
  - nabusman 4y ago
    IME the bribes are often not asked directly but instead the people in the office throw up insurmountable obstacles so that you initiate the conversation of bribes. I don't know why they do this, maybe because it puts them in a better negotiating position?
    - bombcar 4y ago
      Soliciting a bribe is probably illegal. But accepting a gift to do your actual job, how could that be illegal, hmmmm?
      - bluGill 4y ago
        If you go first you are offering a bribe. If the police are investigating offering a bribe is entrapment and your lawyer will run with that in court. In short it is a way to avoid getting caught.
  - bornfreddy 4y ago
    I read the article a bit differently... Whenever there is a "no bribes" note, all went well - elsewhere there were obstacles which could probably be solved with bribes.
ignoramous 4y ago
> Do not set up a legal entity in India. I am curious to know how the Stripe Atlas-like services from razorpay.com and clear.in have worked out for folks here in dealing with govt-facing work?
tkk23 4y ago
India is huge. Could there be a district with enough integrity that it can become the place to establish a company in India?
- nabusman 4y ago
  I think the state of Bihar is trying to do that (just armchair analysis from reading the news)
  - ummonk 4y ago
    Bihar is run by elected thugs and is the last place in India that an honest business would want to go.
  - boruto 4y ago
    Seriously, Is this a joke. Bihar would be right at the bottom of states if I ever setup shop.
  - htoiweri23423 4y ago
    If some of the 'liberal-intellectual' types in India have their way, the only thing Bihar will (again) be known for is the industry of kidnapping.
    - wittycardio 4y ago
      Yes because Bihar is run by liberals and intellectuals ?
- primitivesuave 4y ago
  I highly doubt it. Bribery is baked into the culture. Everyone takes bribes, and the act of solicitation does not have the negative connotations or legal ramifications that it would have elsewhere. Most Indian people who pay regular bribes are on friendly terms with the people they pay bribes to. Also, political parties are mostly funded by bribery, and rely on literally buying the votes of villagers to maintain power. Any political entity with the power to actually tackle corruption would have little incentive to do so.
dirkg 4y ago
also at every level, where you are expected to file forms or deal with any officials, you will be asked to pay some bribe, and there will be 'agents' who offer to do it for you using whatever illegal means they can, for a 'fee', and in many cases they are the only feasible way of getting it done. This happens in every corrupt economy/country but in India its an art form and taken to its logical extreme.

dr_dshiv 4y ago

Wondering—is it easier to buy an existing entity?

loudmax 4y ago
Possibly, if for no other reason than the existing entity has the right connections, knows how to navigate the framework, and knows who to bribe to make things happen.

grepfru_it 4y ago

When I visited a Cisco office in India, I noticed there was a prominent notice of business application and listed the Indian owner of the company. I thought that was interesting and went digging into India law about ownership. When I came out of that rabbit hole I immediately had zero interest in starting up in India. Simply because of the bureaucracy and would be way more wink-wink-$$$-nudge-nudge than what I'm even used to today with my dealings in the West Indies. Then I read the article and by the time I got to the Irrigation NOC I was nodding my head 'yup, exactly what i expected'. It's very easy to read these requirements and agree that there are natural resources that (a) you don't want exploited and (b) want preserved, so all of these hurdles are necessary. But the timeline involved and the MULTIPLE bribes really drives home the fact that reforms are needed.

dr_dshiv 4y ago
Well, I expected this article to be about bribes, because I assume it happens a lot. However, there were no bribes. Does anyone have actual experience with bribes in India (not traffic police)? Edit: sorry, one person openly asked for a bribe, the Panchayat. I would like to understand more about this. Do they just ask for an amount?
- elmomle 4y ago
  Not the OP but typically bureaucrats will talk about fees and fines, which continue without documentation of their purpose (at which point they are explicitly bribes). Baksheesh, whereby people expect a tip ahead of time if you want decent service, is quite common in India and is essentially another form of corruption, especially when practiced by police, bureaucrats, etc.
- nabusman 4y ago
  IME the bribes are often not asked directly but instead the people in the office throw up insurmountable obstacles so that you initiate the conversation of bribes. I don't know why they do this, maybe because it puts them in a better negotiating position?
  - bombcar 4y ago
    Soliciting a bribe is probably illegal. But accepting a gift to do your actual job, how could that be illegal, hmmmm?
    - bluGill 4y ago
      If you go first you are offering a bribe. If the police are investigating offering a bribe is entrapment and your lawyer will run with that in court. In short it is a way to avoid getting caught.
- bornfreddy 4y ago
  I read the article a bit differently... Whenever there is a "no bribes" note, all went well - elsewhere there were obstacles which could probably be solved with bribes.

ignoramous 4y ago

> Do not set up a legal entity in India. I am curious to know how the Stripe Atlas-like services from razorpay.com and clear.in have worked out for folks here in dealing with govt-facing work?

tkk23 4y ago

India is huge. Could there be a district with enough integrity that it can become the place to establish a company in India?

nabusman 4y ago
I think the state of Bihar is trying to do that (just armchair analysis from reading the news)
- ummonk 4y ago
  Bihar is run by elected thugs and is the last place in India that an honest business would want to go.
- boruto 4y ago
  Seriously, Is this a joke. Bihar would be right at the bottom of states if I ever setup shop.
- htoiweri23423 4y ago
  If some of the 'liberal-intellectual' types in India have their way, the only thing Bihar will (again) be known for is the industry of kidnapping.
  - wittycardio 4y ago
    Yes because Bihar is run by liberals and intellectuals ?
primitivesuave 4y ago
I highly doubt it. Bribery is baked into the culture. Everyone takes bribes, and the act of solicitation does not have the negative connotations or legal ramifications that it would have elsewhere. Most Indian people who pay regular bribes are on friendly terms with the people they pay bribes to. Also, political parties are mostly funded by bribery, and rely on literally buying the votes of villagers to maintain power. Any political entity with the power to actually tackle corruption would have little incentive to do so.

dirkg 4y ago

also at every level, where you are expected to file forms or deal with any officials, you will be asked to pay some bribe, and there will be 'agents' who offer to do it for you using whatever illegal means they can, for a 'fee', and in many cases they are the only feasible way of getting it done. This happens in every corrupt economy/country but in India its an art form and taken to its logical extreme.