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This is an unfounded dichotomy. The implication that you cannot have an industrious society without a level of corruption is not supported by your argument (nor

This is an unfounded dichotomy. The implication that you cannot have an industrious society without a level of corruption is not supported by your argument (nor any I have heard of). Equitable working conditions make working more appealing to a worker - and this is extended to the "fairness" of your workplace. Tips are not "the cost of doing business", they are similarly an expectation passed down from authority to the workers to extract their wages opportunistically. People being accustomed to it does not mean that the issue is resolved, because it still leaves the financial risk in the hands of the worker should the business' profitability shift. And so bribes are similarly unethical. Moving on from the issue of bribes to the bribe receiver, they are also very obviously an imposition to the giver. Not further, they make the "true cost" of a transaction less clear to varying degrees, allowing a services cost to vary very highly compared to what the public might think it is. There is no good argument for a bribe.

antonvs 4y ago
> The implication that you cannot have an industrious society without a level of corruption is not supported by your argument (nor any I have heard of). I’m not exactly sure what you’re saying here, but corruption does exist everywhere. It’s just a question of how pervasive it is, how much it’s actually enshrined in law, etc. (E.g. campaign finance laws in the US essentially legalize corruption, which could perhaps be argued to be like decriminalizing drugs in order to better control them, although whether that’s the actual intent is debatable.) The Corruption Perception Index and the Global Corruption Index might help get a sense of this. As is typical with such lists, the top performers (last corrupt) tend to be countries with smaller populations. With bigger populations, the risk and incidence of corruption increases. https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021 https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021 https://risk-indexes.com/global-corruption-index/ https://risk-indexes.com/global-corruption-index/

antonvs 4y ago

> The implication that you cannot have an industrious society without a level of corruption is not supported by your argument (nor any I have heard of). I’m not exactly sure what you’re saying here, but corruption does exist everywhere. It’s just a question of how pervasive it is, how much it’s actually enshrined in law, etc. (E.g. campaign finance laws in the US essentially legalize corruption, which could perhaps be argued to be like decriminalizing drugs in order to better control them, although whether that’s the actual intent is debatable.) The Corruption Perception Index and the Global Corruption Index might help get a sense of this. As is typical with such lists, the top performers (last corrupt) tend to be countries with smaller populations. With bigger populations, the risk and incidence of corruption increases. https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021 https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021 https://risk-indexes.com/global-corruption-index/ https://risk-indexes.com/global-corruption-index/