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Remember that the primary power the average HN reader has to fight abuses like this is simply not to work for the companies that engage in this chicanery. Good

by MBlume 15y ago

Remember that the primary power the average HN reader has to fight abuses like this is simply not to work for the companies that engage in this chicanery. Good hackers are valuable, and companies fight for them. When companies do things most hackers consider evil, it should hurt them.

thwarted 15y ago
Apple most likely isn't in this camp, and has enough cachét and goodwill to still be a desirable place to work, but those kinds of companies usually can't recognize good hackers, or even know that there's a difference. They will execute on their harmful and odd undertakings with whoever they can find, quality or not. This is how we end up with things like spyware being distributed under the guise of marketing. And patent troll/patent hording companies don't need to hire hackers.
- redthrowaway 15y ago
  How is Apple not in the "doing things hackers consider evil" camp? They've been doing such things for a long, long time. I had hoped it might end with Cook as CEO, but apparently no such luck.
  - bonzoesc 15y ago
    Why would you expect a business (an entity that subsists entirely on money) that has made shitloads of money to suddenly stop doing everything it can to continue to make shitloads of money?
  - thwarted 15y ago
    The camp that I don't think Apple is in is the one where they can not recognize good hackers or think they don't need good hackers, which is what my comment is about. Obviously, a lot of people are misinterpreting my comment or are not reading the whole thing.
maximusprime 15y ago
Surely it's the rules of the game that are at fault here. You can't blame companies for using the rules of the game to their best advantage. The answer is to tell everyone how much of a ridiculous unfair idiotic idea most patents are. You shouldn't be able to patent software - it's trivial. You shouldn't be able to patent things like "Touchscreen used on mobile device" - It's obvious. Patents should be reserved for things that aren't obvious, take a lot of research, and can be done many ways. For example drugs research. They should be denied and ruled null and void for most things related to software/consumer technology.
- gregschlom 15y ago
  Either you stand up for what you believe in, or you don't. The "rules of the game" as you say, were made by the people that are playing it. So if you believe that some companies have taken the patent game too far and are a nuisance to society, why not take action against it and stand up to your beliefs?
  - maximusprime 15y ago
    I don't think attacking the companies is productive though. Lobby the government to change the law.
    - dextorious 15y ago
      Yeah, that would be productive, right...
    - rbanffy 15y ago
      You can always expose and boycott the companies who do deals you morally object to. You can always call others to do the same.
      - dextorious 15y ago
        Has that ever worked for a large multinational? It's not the local grocery shop around the corner with the rotten produce...
sunahsuh 15y ago
This is the same individualistic fallacy that comes up over and over again. Yes, individual actions matter for your own personal integrity, but focusing on those as a solution to what is essentially a systemic problem ignores root causes. Society is a system that's just waiting to be hacked, if you're willing to start seeing it that way.
- feralchimp 15y ago
  Society is a system made up of point-masses of personal integrity (or lack thereof). "The system" didn't make Apple decide to fuck over consumers by jumping on board with a patent troll; that decision was made by a group of specific persons who deserve neither my respect or my business. Don't reward moral cowardice by hacking your own mind into considering it "just the way things are." Make the bastards work a little harder to buy you out, at least.
  - pavedwalden 15y ago
    I think I agree with sunahsuh. When a system is stacked in a certain direction, appeals to personal responsibility can win battles but will lose the war. In the prisoner's dilemma, we can hope for mutual co-operation, but until the rules of the game change it's nearly inevitable that defectors will make out better.
- EvilLook 15y ago
  The whole damn valley is a pussy just waiting to get fucked.

by MBlume 15y ago

thwarted 15y ago

Apple most likely isn't in this camp, and has enough cachét and goodwill to still be a desirable place to work, but those kinds of companies usually can't recognize good hackers, or even know that there's a difference. They will execute on their harmful and odd undertakings with whoever they can find, quality or not. This is how we end up with things like spyware being distributed under the guise of marketing. And patent troll/patent hording companies don't need to hire hackers.

redthrowaway 15y ago
How is Apple not in the "doing things hackers consider evil" camp? They've been doing such things for a long, long time. I had hoped it might end with Cook as CEO, but apparently no such luck.
- bonzoesc 15y ago
  Why would you expect a business (an entity that subsists entirely on money) that has made shitloads of money to suddenly stop doing everything it can to continue to make shitloads of money?
- thwarted 15y ago
  The camp that I don't think Apple is in is the one where they can not recognize good hackers or think they don't need good hackers, which is what my comment is about. Obviously, a lot of people are misinterpreting my comment or are not reading the whole thing.

maximusprime 15y ago

Surely it's the rules of the game that are at fault here. You can't blame companies for using the rules of the game to their best advantage. The answer is to tell everyone how much of a ridiculous unfair idiotic idea most patents are. You shouldn't be able to patent software - it's trivial. You shouldn't be able to patent things like "Touchscreen used on mobile device" - It's obvious. Patents should be reserved for things that aren't obvious, take a lot of research, and can be done many ways. For example drugs research. They should be denied and ruled null and void for most things related to software/consumer technology.

gregschlom 15y ago
Either you stand up for what you believe in, or you don't. The "rules of the game" as you say, were made by the people that are playing it. So if you believe that some companies have taken the patent game too far and are a nuisance to society, why not take action against it and stand up to your beliefs?
- maximusprime 15y ago
  I don't think attacking the companies is productive though. Lobby the government to change the law.
  - dextorious 15y ago
    Yeah, that would be productive, right...
  - rbanffy 15y ago
    You can always expose and boycott the companies who do deals you morally object to. You can always call others to do the same.
    - dextorious 15y ago
      Has that ever worked for a large multinational? It's not the local grocery shop around the corner with the rotten produce...

sunahsuh 15y ago

This is the same individualistic fallacy that comes up over and over again. Yes, individual actions matter for your own personal integrity, but focusing on those as a solution to what is essentially a systemic problem ignores root causes. Society is a system that's just waiting to be hacked, if you're willing to start seeing it that way.

feralchimp 15y ago
Society is a system made up of point-masses of personal integrity (or lack thereof). "The system" didn't make Apple decide to fuck over consumers by jumping on board with a patent troll; that decision was made by a group of specific persons who deserve neither my respect or my business. Don't reward moral cowardice by hacking your own mind into considering it "just the way things are." Make the bastards work a little harder to buy you out, at least.
- pavedwalden 15y ago
  I think I agree with sunahsuh. When a system is stacked in a certain direction, appeals to personal responsibility can win battles but will lose the war. In the prisoner's dilemma, we can hope for mutual co-operation, but until the rules of the game change it's nearly inevitable that defectors will make out better.
EvilLook 15y ago
The whole damn valley is a pussy just waiting to get fucked.