4 ms·

Rust microservices in server-side WebAssembly

33 points by 3Sophons 4y ago

jsjohnst 4y ago
> However, for server-side applications, Rust also presents some challenges. Rust programs are compiled into native machine code, which is not portable and is unsafe in multi-tenancy cloud environments. We also lack tools to manage and orchestrate native applications in the cloud. Can’t roll my eyes hard enough at this… sure, there’s some level of truth in each part in isolation probably, but overall how it’s stated is essentially FUD.
- Kinrany 4y ago
  I think they're saying that there's no secure language-level VM for Rust, compared to JS or, say, Lua.
  - jsjohnst 4y ago
    How do you define secure in this case though? A definite case could be made that Rust is more secure than either option listed. Context matters and arbitrarily picking a context to exclude one vs another is rather disingenuous on the authors’ part.
  - 10000truths 4y ago
    Native code already executes in a sandbox, it’s called a process. It’s fine if implementing multitenancy with processes doesn’t fit the use case specified in the article, but for the article to state that a secure execution context for native code doesn’t exist and call it unsafe is ignorant.
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    It is called an OS process.
throwaway290 4y ago
What is Maraia DB? Is that a typo?
- 3Sophons 4y ago
  You mean [MariaDB](https://mariadb.org/ https://mariadb.org/)?
klysm 4y ago
log rocket pumps out incredible amounts of pretty thin blog spam. Just another example of SEO marketing degrading the quality of content
brundolf 4y ago
Is there a purpose to using WASM for this if you control the whole server/VM? i.e. it's not shared by a bunch of multi-tenant services, which means your server trusts the service being run. Your server would also not have to be language-agnostic, so you could just push the code and then build a native binary on the server itself I guess if you're really worried about layered security the extra sandboxing could be desirable, to protect the other services in case one of them gets compromised
- Kinrany 4y ago
  The thought is that compiling to WASM results in less overhead than wrapping in a container.
  - brundolf 4y ago
    Sure, but I'm suggesting you could skip the container too if all you need to deploy is a binary anyway
- pjmlp 4y ago
  I see it as ideas for venture capitalists trying to make a business out of WebAssembly, that should never have left the browser anyway. Maybe if we ignore it long enough it will go the way of NoSQL hype wave.
  - brundolf 4y ago
    I think WebAssembly can be plenty valuable outside the browser, I just don't see much value in the exact use-case from the OP But it's probably just for the sake of example and not intended to be a real life use-case

33 points by 3Sophons 4y ago

> However, for server-side applications, Rust also presents some challenges. Rust programs are compiled into native machine code, which is not portable and is unsafe in multi-tenancy cloud environments. We also lack tools to manage and orchestrate native applications in the cloud. Can’t roll my eyes hard enough at this… sure, there’s some level of truth in each part in isolation probably, but overall how it’s stated is essentially FUD.

Kinrany 4y ago
I think they're saying that there's no secure language-level VM for Rust, compared to JS or, say, Lua.
- jsjohnst 4y ago
  How do you define secure in this case though? A definite case could be made that Rust is more secure than either option listed. Context matters and arbitrarily picking a context to exclude one vs another is rather disingenuous on the authors’ part.
- 10000truths 4y ago
  Native code already executes in a sandbox, it’s called a process. It’s fine if implementing multitenancy with processes doesn’t fit the use case specified in the article, but for the article to state that a secure execution context for native code doesn’t exist and call it unsafe is ignorant.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  It is called an OS process.

throwaway290 4y ago

What is Maraia DB? Is that a typo?

3Sophons 4y ago
You mean [MariaDB](https://mariadb.org/ https://mariadb.org/)?

klysm 4y ago

log rocket pumps out incredible amounts of pretty thin blog spam. Just another example of SEO marketing degrading the quality of content

brundolf 4y ago

Is there a purpose to using WASM for this if you control the whole server/VM? i.e. it's not shared by a bunch of multi-tenant services, which means your server trusts the service being run. Your server would also not have to be language-agnostic, so you could just push the code and then build a native binary on the server itself I guess if you're really worried about layered security the extra sandboxing could be desirable, to protect the other services in case one of them gets compromised

Kinrany 4y ago
The thought is that compiling to WASM results in less overhead than wrapping in a container.
- brundolf 4y ago
  Sure, but I'm suggesting you could skip the container too if all you need to deploy is a binary anyway
pjmlp 4y ago
I see it as ideas for venture capitalists trying to make a business out of WebAssembly, that should never have left the browser anyway. Maybe if we ignore it long enough it will go the way of NoSQL hype wave.
- brundolf 4y ago
  I think WebAssembly can be plenty valuable outside the browser, I just don't see much value in the exact use-case from the OP But it's probably just for the sake of example and not intended to be a real life use-case