> But there are whole genres of games that you can't win. Minecraft creative mode, the Sims, most MMOs, Cities Skylines, etc etc etc. These are all games that

> But there are whole genres of games that you can't win. Minecraft creative mode, the Sims, most MMOs, Cities Skylines, etc etc etc. These are all games that you set your own goals and achieve them. When the player runs out of goals for themselves, they stop playing. Sounds like a win condition to me. Just set by a different person. > And Wikipedia considers progress quest a game, I consider it a game, and the author considers it a game. It might be fairly called a zero player game, but I think it's reasonable to apply the label game. I could find a whole bunch of people to say the earth is flat. So what? I don't consider it a game. What makes the author any more right about that than me?