7 ms·

We Just Gave $260k to Open Source Maintainers

150 points by mwarkentin 4y ago

ginger2016 4y ago
- mcluck 4y ago
  Not everyone lives in Silicon Valley
  - throwaway1777 4y ago
    I thought the point of remote open source work was location was irrelevant.
    - mcluck 4y ago
      I wish that were true but it's just not realistic to pay every engineer those kinds of salaries. Also, there's a lot of companies that employ software engineers where they are not in the SV market so they can't afford those kinds of salaries
    - lolinder 4y ago
      To the extent this is true, remote work would average out wages across localities, not raise everyone's to match SV's.
- joppy 4y ago
  Here in sunny Sydney, US$260k would cover the salary of three good developers, or two exceptional developers.
qwerki 4y ago
Hi HN, This is a great initiative in supporting open source. I’m the founder of https://thanks.dev https://thanks.dev mentioned in the article and I’ve been speaking to a lot of community members over the last year. There’s a lot of great work being done in the background that we don’t hear about and there’s an opportunity to do a lot more. I’ve learnt an immense amount since I’ve been working on this project and the diversity in thought & perspective I’ve encountered has been amazing! Happy to chat if anyone is interested. Big kudos to Chad & Sentry! Ali,
- hsb1007 4y ago
  Nice to see the product finally live. I managed to connect my git account & the dependency tree breakdown is awesome. Great work Ali!
  - qwerki 4y ago
    Many thanks for the encouraging words! :)
- whit537 4y ago
  Thanks, Ali, and congrats on the launch! :^)
- vishnu_ks 4y ago
  How do you decide how much money to allocate to a dependency? Especially in ecosystems like NodeJS where there are 1000s of dependencies for a single project. And most of the dependencies are very small, does trivial things but is used by a vast number of packages.
- greatgib 4y ago
  Hi Ali, I just discovered your project and I have a question. Why isn't it a public page with all the OSS projects that already have register maintainers and the one that have donation pending but with no maintainer registered? Otherwise how do you notify maintainers of projects that did not join your platform that money is pending for them if they would register?
cyansmoker 4y ago
When reading the project list, I thought there was a project called "fapbot" lol
halffaday 4y ago
Some of the larger ones are Armin Ronacher’s own projects…
- ainogate 4y ago
  So he should as the creator of flask, I'm sure it's not easy trying to maintain that.
  - zeeg 4y ago
    I believe these are actually donating to an organization which manages projects he created, not to him directly.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - whit537 4y ago
      Yes I confirmed with him ahead of time that he doesn't see any money sent to the Pallets project.
- doctoboggan 4y ago
  What do you mean "own projects"? At first I thought you were implying that he somehow had a say in how the donations were distributed. But it seems like he is just a unaffiliated recipient? Anyone who does python web work would probably list him as highly core to the ecosystem so that would make sense.
  - lolinder 4y ago
    He's not unaffiliated, he's a Director of Engineering at Sentry [0]. Whether that means he has a say in who got paid I don't know, but I can see how that would feel a bit off to OP. Edit: I'm also not 100% sure which projects OP was referring to. I just looked through the Google sheet and can't find anything by him, but I could have missed something. [0] https://lucumr.pocoo.org/about/ https://lucumr.pocoo.org/about/
svnpenn 4y ago
> https://foundation.rust-lang.org/ https://foundation.rust-lang.org/ 15,000 With all due respect, they don't need this money. Rust is a great project, and deserving, but they already have plenty of sponsors. I would have rather seen 150 x $100 go to smaller projects. So much great software is being written, by people who are barely scraping by, and even $100 could be the motivation for someone to finish something widely useful.
- lolinder 4y ago
  > Additionally, we gave $67,500 to five foundations covering the core languages (Python, JavaScript, and Rust) and infrastructure components (Postgres, Apache) that we use to deliver Sentry. There's nothing wrong with a company prioritizing donations to the projects that impact their work the most. Programming languages have by far the biggest impact on their programmers' day-to-day work, so it makes sense that Sentry would target them for outsized donations.
- LewisJEllis 4y ago
charcircuit 4y ago
thanks.dev sounds pretty shady. They seem to collect donations for projects on their behalf without telling them. So while you think you are donating to some dependency you really are giving the money to thanks.dev where they can hold onto the money until someone realizes their project has more than the minimum amount. The FAQ says that if people don't withdraw the money within 3 months it just gets sent to other people. This means that someone could donate $100 to a project and then that money ends up never making it to the author of the project. Or if you have a small project your donations never reach enough for you to withdraw them. The article mentions that thanks.dev has a global blacklist of people who you can't donate to. This means they have the power to make certain dependencies get a bigger share of the money that is being donated.
- voxl 4y ago
  I'm honestly curious if that is legal, it sounds like fraud. Not a lawyer of course.
  - lolinder 4y ago
    Why would it be fraud if they're upfront about it? It looks like the entire point of thanks.dev is that you give them your dependency list and they attempt to distribute your donation budget between your dependencies. Their target audience specifically doesn't want to think about where exactly the cash goes, they just want to make sure it goes to maintainers of software they use. No one is being defrauded when the exact distribution of the funds changes because the exact distribution of funds is explicitly delegated to thanks.dev.
    - Manu40 4y ago
      Snake oil salesmen are also upfront about their products features. All of them... except the part about them being snake oil. I dunno pal. I think the idea behind thanks.dev can be a good one, but I think I agree with GP. This seems rather snaky to me.
- sieabahlpark 4y ago
bradgessler 4y ago
I’d like to see GitHub build into their product a way for Organizations to set donation budgets per user. For example, Microsoft could allocate $100 annual budget per user in their GH Engineer team. The people on those teams could then donate those dollars to whatever open source projects they see fit on GitHub. I know this would require a lot of paperwork, etc, etc, but they’ve already buried themselves in it with donations and seemed to have outsourced most of that to Stripe. I know there would be some shady shit and scams that would happen if this was built, like people donating to their cousins OSS project that has 2 stars and is a fork of Scriptaculous, but there’s lots of different ways to minimize those risks so it’s a moot point. Overall this approach would lower donation friction for both the company and the employee and inject a lot more cash into the donation ecosystem.
- zeeg 4y ago
  Agree! I would love to see this, as its exactly the kind of "benefit" (or "perk" if you will) we were hoping to offer at Sentry. This is our way-more-of-a-pita implementation of getting users voices into what projects we fund, but also ensuring we fund critical infrastructure we rely on.
- Komodai 4y ago

150 points by mwarkentin 4y ago

ginger2016 4y ago

mcluck 4y ago
Not everyone lives in Silicon Valley
- throwaway1777 4y ago
  I thought the point of remote open source work was location was irrelevant.
  - mcluck 4y ago
    I wish that were true but it's just not realistic to pay every engineer those kinds of salaries. Also, there's a lot of companies that employ software engineers where they are not in the SV market so they can't afford those kinds of salaries
  - lolinder 4y ago
    To the extent this is true, remote work would average out wages across localities, not raise everyone's to match SV's.
joppy 4y ago
Here in sunny Sydney, US$260k would cover the salary of three good developers, or two exceptional developers.

Hi HN, This is a great initiative in supporting open source. I’m the founder of https://thanks.dev https://thanks.dev mentioned in the article and I’ve been speaking to a lot of community members over the last year. There’s a lot of great work being done in the background that we don’t hear about and there’s an opportunity to do a lot more. I’ve learnt an immense amount since I’ve been working on this project and the diversity in thought & perspective I’ve encountered has been amazing! Happy to chat if anyone is interested. Big kudos to Chad & Sentry! Ali,

hsb1007 4y ago
Nice to see the product finally live. I managed to connect my git account & the dependency tree breakdown is awesome. Great work Ali!
- qwerki 4y ago
  Many thanks for the encouraging words! :)
whit537 4y ago
Thanks, Ali, and congrats on the launch! :^)
vishnu_ks 4y ago
How do you decide how much money to allocate to a dependency? Especially in ecosystems like NodeJS where there are 1000s of dependencies for a single project. And most of the dependencies are very small, does trivial things but is used by a vast number of packages.
greatgib 4y ago
Hi Ali, I just discovered your project and I have a question. Why isn't it a public page with all the OSS projects that already have register maintainers and the one that have donation pending but with no maintainer registered? Otherwise how do you notify maintainers of projects that did not join your platform that money is pending for them if they would register?

cyansmoker 4y ago

When reading the project list, I thought there was a project called "fapbot" lol

halffaday 4y ago

Some of the larger ones are Armin Ronacher’s own projects…

ainogate 4y ago
So he should as the creator of flask, I'm sure it's not easy trying to maintain that.
- zeeg 4y ago
  I believe these are actually donating to an organization which manages projects he created, not to him directly.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - whit537 4y ago
    Yes I confirmed with him ahead of time that he doesn't see any money sent to the Pallets project.
doctoboggan 4y ago
What do you mean "own projects"? At first I thought you were implying that he somehow had a say in how the donations were distributed. But it seems like he is just a unaffiliated recipient? Anyone who does python web work would probably list him as highly core to the ecosystem so that would make sense.
- lolinder 4y ago
  He's not unaffiliated, he's a Director of Engineering at Sentry [0]. Whether that means he has a say in who got paid I don't know, but I can see how that would feel a bit off to OP. Edit: I'm also not 100% sure which projects OP was referring to. I just looked through the Google sheet and can't find anything by him, but I could have missed something. [0] https://lucumr.pocoo.org/about/ https://lucumr.pocoo.org/about/

svnpenn 4y ago

> https://foundation.rust-lang.org/ https://foundation.rust-lang.org/ 15,000 With all due respect, they don't need this money. Rust is a great project, and deserving, but they already have plenty of sponsors. I would have rather seen 150 x $100 go to smaller projects. So much great software is being written, by people who are barely scraping by, and even $100 could be the motivation for someone to finish something widely useful.

lolinder 4y ago
> Additionally, we gave $67,500 to five foundations covering the core languages (Python, JavaScript, and Rust) and infrastructure components (Postgres, Apache) that we use to deliver Sentry. There's nothing wrong with a company prioritizing donations to the projects that impact their work the most. Programming languages have by far the biggest impact on their programmers' day-to-day work, so it makes sense that Sentry would target them for outsized donations.
LewisJEllis 4y ago

charcircuit 4y ago

thanks.dev sounds pretty shady. They seem to collect donations for projects on their behalf without telling them. So while you think you are donating to some dependency you really are giving the money to thanks.dev where they can hold onto the money until someone realizes their project has more than the minimum amount. The FAQ says that if people don't withdraw the money within 3 months it just gets sent to other people. This means that someone could donate $100 to a project and then that money ends up never making it to the author of the project. Or if you have a small project your donations never reach enough for you to withdraw them. The article mentions that thanks.dev has a global blacklist of people who you can't donate to. This means they have the power to make certain dependencies get a bigger share of the money that is being donated.

voxl 4y ago
I'm honestly curious if that is legal, it sounds like fraud. Not a lawyer of course.
- lolinder 4y ago
  Why would it be fraud if they're upfront about it? It looks like the entire point of thanks.dev is that you give them your dependency list and they attempt to distribute your donation budget between your dependencies. Their target audience specifically doesn't want to think about where exactly the cash goes, they just want to make sure it goes to maintainers of software they use. No one is being defrauded when the exact distribution of the funds changes because the exact distribution of funds is explicitly delegated to thanks.dev.
  - Manu40 4y ago
    Snake oil salesmen are also upfront about their products features. All of them... except the part about them being snake oil. I dunno pal. I think the idea behind thanks.dev can be a good one, but I think I agree with GP. This seems rather snaky to me.
sieabahlpark 4y ago

bradgessler 4y ago

I’d like to see GitHub build into their product a way for Organizations to set donation budgets per user. For example, Microsoft could allocate $100 annual budget per user in their GH Engineer team. The people on those teams could then donate those dollars to whatever open source projects they see fit on GitHub. I know this would require a lot of paperwork, etc, etc, but they’ve already buried themselves in it with donations and seemed to have outsourced most of that to Stripe. I know there would be some shady shit and scams that would happen if this was built, like people donating to their cousins OSS project that has 2 stars and is a fork of Scriptaculous, but there’s lots of different ways to minimize those risks so it’s a moot point. Overall this approach would lower donation friction for both the company and the employee and inject a lot more cash into the donation ecosystem.

zeeg 4y ago
Agree! I would love to see this, as its exactly the kind of "benefit" (or "perk" if you will) we were hoping to offer at Sentry. This is our way-more-of-a-pita implementation of getting users voices into what projects we fund, but also ensuring we fund critical infrastructure we rely on.
Komodai 4y ago