4 ms·

What do you mean by “remoted”?

xnyan 4y ago
I’ve seen this done for support. Apple seems to have an internal remote access tool similar to common VNC or RDP based tools that allows them to view a video stream of your display and send touch inputs to it as if they were physically using your device.
- noja 4y ago
  > and send touch inputs to it as if they were physically using your device. No they can't. They overlay a red arrow showing where they want you to push, and you (the user) are asked to push there.
  - lrvick 4y ago
    They can literally send custom firmware to the device. It is their device, not yours, and they can do whatever they want with it.
    - such12 4y ago
      Not even close to true. If Apple were to exfiltrate your files, or monitor your screen intentionally without you opting in, they’d be taken to pieces in court.
      - lrvick 4y ago
        Or maybe you visit a different country, like China, where Apple has ceded all power over their servers and encryption keys to the CCP. Or even in the US, the courts you think will save you could be the very ones ordering your data because you are suspected of a crime because you typed a certain trigger phrase that activates an automated warrant like those Google has. The 4th amendment only protects you when data is stored on your property. When it is in control of a corporation, the corporation gets the warrant, not you. Or maybe Apple simply changes their terms of service to resemble that of TikTok or Facebook giving them more or less complete legal freedom over your data. Or maybe it is just a rouge Apple system administrator that does not care about the rules. You can not own an Apple device and the data on it is at the mercy of choices made by remote humans with incentives very different from yours. Power that exists will always be abused. It is how humans work.
        such12 4y ago
        Maybe, the sky is falling, maybe it isn’t. > Power that exists will always be abused. I hate to break it to you, but power isn’t going anywhere, and it isn’t always abused. Telling the difference is what matters.
        lrvick 4y ago
        I hold my own data on devices that I own on property that I own. No one has legal power to change their terms of service governing my data, or issue secret warrants, or extralegal power to outright take my digital property. Would those situations ever have seriously impacted me in the first place? Probably not. Thing is though, they can and do affect a lot of people. The more people that learn to take back control of their digital property, the safer we all are. I was just making the point that Apple hardware and the data on it is not in your control. If you fully trust Apple and your politicians to never mistakenly target you or anyone you recommend the same practices to, then you are all good.
        gzer0 4y ago
        The comments you are making on HN right this very moment are contrary to what you preach. HN owns the data on your account, not you. I cannot assume your jurisdiction, but if one were to believe what you have stated, these assumptions would need to be true: 1) you’ve never flown anywhere before 2) you do not belong to any single country (you need to be a nomad, as all modern countries have identification systems in place for their citizens) 3) you’re using internet at a cafe because if you are paying any bills to your ISP that’s game over - I find it highly improbable you speak the truth. I’m sorry to say, but it really seems like the type of comment made by an “ignorance is bliss” type of individual that has recently watched an episode of mr robot.
        lrvick 4y ago
        I am easy to look up, as well as what I do for a living, if you wish to do so. The data I post on HN is public. When I post data to a public place it is no longer mine. I am not a luddite, I simply have separation of concerns between public and personal life. Data that is not public, is mine. When I fly, I accept this is a public event. All parties are transparent about this. You will however be hard pressed to buy a record of the local locations I frequent or what I purchase at a pharmacy without an expensive private investigator because I do not carry a cell phone and I pay cash. The data that I consider mine, such as personal family photos, detailed location history, my IoT product usage, etc, lives in servers I physically own on property I own. Not unlike a box of photos in someones attic. If you want to rifle through it, get a warrant. No surveillance capitalism companies will have a chance at buying that data regardless. I do sometimes use third party services to distribute private data, such as matrix.org. The privata data such as DMs can not be decrypted or controlled by the server operators, and only by my keys on devices I control all software on. That data is mine too. You do not need to trust your ISP to have a useful level of digital sovereignty.
    - dwaite 4y ago
      I'd need to see some evidence they have this capability. They could publish a firmware that abuses your device, but they would have to ship this to everyone on that particular channel (e.g. general releases, public beta, developer beta)
      - lrvick 4y ago
        They host the servers. They know your current IP and current login session to the app store at all times. Of course they could ship a signed update to only you with a court order. How do you think beta channels work? Maybe judges do not realize they have that power yet, but they will eventually. The CCP certainly understands this well, which is why they seized the HSMs governing encryption and binary signing for Chinese citizens.
darknoon 4y ago
Apple support can push a screen share to your device. Iirc, you have to accept it before it starts sharing.

I’ve seen this done for support. Apple seems to have an internal remote access tool similar to common VNC or RDP based tools that allows them to view a video stream of your display and send touch inputs to it as if they were physically using your device.

noja 4y ago
> and send touch inputs to it as if they were physically using your device. No they can't. They overlay a red arrow showing where they want you to push, and you (the user) are asked to push there.
- lrvick 4y ago
  They can literally send custom firmware to the device. It is their device, not yours, and they can do whatever they want with it.
  - such12 4y ago
    Not even close to true. If Apple were to exfiltrate your files, or monitor your screen intentionally without you opting in, they’d be taken to pieces in court.
    - lrvick 4y ago
      Or maybe you visit a different country, like China, where Apple has ceded all power over their servers and encryption keys to the CCP. Or even in the US, the courts you think will save you could be the very ones ordering your data because you are suspected of a crime because you typed a certain trigger phrase that activates an automated warrant like those Google has. The 4th amendment only protects you when data is stored on your property. When it is in control of a corporation, the corporation gets the warrant, not you. Or maybe Apple simply changes their terms of service to resemble that of TikTok or Facebook giving them more or less complete legal freedom over your data. Or maybe it is just a rouge Apple system administrator that does not care about the rules. You can not own an Apple device and the data on it is at the mercy of choices made by remote humans with incentives very different from yours. Power that exists will always be abused. It is how humans work.
      - such12 4y ago
        Maybe, the sky is falling, maybe it isn’t. > Power that exists will always be abused. I hate to break it to you, but power isn’t going anywhere, and it isn’t always abused. Telling the difference is what matters.
        lrvick 4y ago
        I hold my own data on devices that I own on property that I own. No one has legal power to change their terms of service governing my data, or issue secret warrants, or extralegal power to outright take my digital property. Would those situations ever have seriously impacted me in the first place? Probably not. Thing is though, they can and do affect a lot of people. The more people that learn to take back control of their digital property, the safer we all are. I was just making the point that Apple hardware and the data on it is not in your control. If you fully trust Apple and your politicians to never mistakenly target you or anyone you recommend the same practices to, then you are all good.
        gzer0 4y ago
        The comments you are making on HN right this very moment are contrary to what you preach. HN owns the data on your account, not you. I cannot assume your jurisdiction, but if one were to believe what you have stated, these assumptions would need to be true: 1) you’ve never flown anywhere before 2) you do not belong to any single country (you need to be a nomad, as all modern countries have identification systems in place for their citizens) 3) you’re using internet at a cafe because if you are paying any bills to your ISP that’s game over - I find it highly improbable you speak the truth. I’m sorry to say, but it really seems like the type of comment made by an “ignorance is bliss” type of individual that has recently watched an episode of mr robot.
        lrvick 4y ago
        I am easy to look up, as well as what I do for a living, if you wish to do so. The data I post on HN is public. When I post data to a public place it is no longer mine. I am not a luddite, I simply have separation of concerns between public and personal life. Data that is not public, is mine. When I fly, I accept this is a public event. All parties are transparent about this. You will however be hard pressed to buy a record of the local locations I frequent or what I purchase at a pharmacy without an expensive private investigator because I do not carry a cell phone and I pay cash. The data that I consider mine, such as personal family photos, detailed location history, my IoT product usage, etc, lives in servers I physically own on property I own. Not unlike a box of photos in someones attic. If you want to rifle through it, get a warrant. No surveillance capitalism companies will have a chance at buying that data regardless. I do sometimes use third party services to distribute private data, such as matrix.org. The privata data such as DMs can not be decrypted or controlled by the server operators, and only by my keys on devices I control all software on. That data is mine too. You do not need to trust your ISP to have a useful level of digital sovereignty.
  - dwaite 4y ago
    I'd need to see some evidence they have this capability. They could publish a firmware that abuses your device, but they would have to ship this to everyone on that particular channel (e.g. general releases, public beta, developer beta)
    - lrvick 4y ago
      They host the servers. They know your current IP and current login session to the app store at all times. Of course they could ship a signed update to only you with a court order. How do you think beta channels work? Maybe judges do not realize they have that power yet, but they will eventually. The CCP certainly understands this well, which is why they seized the HSMs governing encryption and binary signing for Chinese citizens.

darknoon 4y ago

Apple support can push a screen share to your device. Iirc, you have to accept it before it starts sharing.