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iPhones make money, but services make more. The App Store alone made over 80 billion dollars in estimated revenue last year, just by existing. That's without ac

iPhones make money, but services make more. The App Store alone made over 80 billion dollars in estimated revenue last year, just by existing. That's without accounting for Apple One, Apple Fitness, Apple Arcade, AppleTV Plus, or iCloud. Apple simply makes $80 billion annually for writing a payment processor everyone else has to use. Services are one thing, but playing both the gatekeeper and competitor to a number of corporations is not a sustainable business model. Apple needs to double-down on their hardware dominance and leave the software distribution to software writers. All their other services can stay, Apple users can drown in AppleTV+ shows for all I care. The App Store is a fundamental de-facto monopoly on software distribution and (as we've seen with Spotify) service development. That quite literally cannot be the status quo going forward.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
prepend 4y ago
> The App Store is a fundamental de-facto monopoly on software distribution and (as we've seen with Spotify) service development. This would be true if Android didn’t exist. But it does, so apple isn’t. What would be funny is if Google stops developing android, since it’s lot lucrative, so they can sue under antitrust to improve their ad business that apple keeps hampering.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  > This would be true if Android didn’t exist. But it does, so apple isn’t. This would be true if iOS and the App Store weren't separate entities. But they are, so it isn't. If Google stops contributing to the AOSP, they would not be able to sue under antitrust because Android still exists.
  - prepend 4y ago
    I don’t think Android would retain much market power, especially in the US and Europe, if Google stopped backing it.
kjreact 4y ago
I think the App Store model is probably still currently the best model for the average user who doesn’t know how to secure a computing device. I know we may be heading towards a future where we’re totally locked down, but what alternative do we have? I’m always hesitant to install software on my desktop because I never know if there’s a trojan hidden in the software. I’m a relatively technical user, but I have no idea how I would determine if the software was safe. So at the moment I’m content to let Apple handle it. Note, this is coming from a pro-Apple user. Conversely, it would be interesting if an independent pro-privacy company (such as DuckDuckGo?) were to make a configurable smartphone for the more technical crowd that was both secure and allowed side-loading. I’d like to see such a product offered as an alternative to the offerings from the big tech companies.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  > I know we may be heading towards a future where we’re totally locked down, but what alternative do we have? Well, Apple could just... let people install other stores. The App Store will still exist for new users and security-paranoid users, but the right to install/manage software needs to be a universal right when you buy hardware from someone. Arguing the opposite is almost insanity. > I’m a relatively technical user, but I have no idea how I would determine if the software was safe. Do what F-Droid does, compare the downloaded binary against a first-party checksum for the release (usually provided by Github). Then you can tell if the software you're loading has been tampered before it runs, simple as that. This is what the App Store does internally (along with cert-checking) to provide your "premium" security experience. It's largely designed to be distributed. > Conversely, it would be interesting if an independent pro-privacy company (such as DuckDuckGo?) were to make a configurable smartphone for the more technical crowd that was both secure and allowed side-loading. That's not the point either. The iPhone is fully capable of loading alternative App Stores and even alternate OSes. Apple is the only one stopping the user from doing these things. The fact that Apple explicitly does not allow people to distribute software unless they profit off has drawn incredible antitrust scrutiny. All of this can and will be alleviated with Apple giving up their iron grip on the 30% tax. What alternative do we have?
  - 4y ago
AOsborn 4y ago
> That quite literally cannot be the status quo going forward. Honestly, I disagree. The Apple customer experience and product ecosystem is just so far ahead of any competitors I don't want to use anything else. As far as the store is concerned specifically, I want to be able to use one store with a clear policy around payments, subscriptions and refunds - not a myriad of half-baked competitors with fragmented offerings.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  That's great, I support that option for you. Personally, I just want to use the Open Source apps that Apple won't let me install. If I can have that, then there's no reason we can't both live in perfect harmony. That system works perfectly fine on Android and Google even manages to make a handsome bundle off the Play Store to boot.
  - andsoitis 4y ago
    What are some of the open source apps you use on your Android phone?
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      Glad you asked! Florisboard is a nice minimalist alternative to GBoard. Offers decent theming and lots of settings for haptics/layout, makes a very quick/easy replacement on new devices. NewPipe is a minimalist frontend to YouTube that lets you download videos and use PiP/background playing without paying for Premium (or logging into YouTube, for that matter) Bromite offers a de-Googled Chromium experience for mobile users, pretty barebones and basic. Glider is an awesome FOSS Hacker News client that I use for checking headlines on the go. Hugely recommended if you're an Android user! The last big one I use is KeePassDX, which is a password manager integrated with the open KeePass standard. All my passwords get locked up in a nice encrypted, portable file I sync across my devices. Now, I also use the Play Store for stuff like Discord and Spotify, and iOS users probably would still use the App Store if Cydia became officially supported overnight. That being said, having FOSS replacements for shitty defaults saves the modern Google-based Android experience for me. If they removed sideloading, I'd probably jump ship to a more minimalist fork.
ummonk 4y ago
As a consumer, I’m happy to pay the ~40% premium necessary to have app service subscriptions that are easy to cancel from a single location…
jeromegv 4y ago
Your numbers are wrong. iPhone business is bigger than services by quite a large number https://www.macstories.net/news/apple-reports-expectations-beating-q4-2022-results-of-90-1-billion/ https://www.macstories.net/news/apple-reports-expectations-b... 47% vs 21%
scarface74 4y ago
> iPhones make money, but services make more. The results are there big as day. This is obviously isn’t true. > The App Store alone made over 80 billion dollars in estimated revenue last year, just by existing Apple accounts for revenue as all of the money it takes in for the App Store before distributing 70%-85% to app makers. > for all I care. The App Store is a fundamental de-facto monopoly on software distribution Good thing we have a real judge who has said just the opposite in the Epic vs Apple trial. The judge thought it was foolish to claim that someone had a legal “monopoly” on their own platform. That’s just like saying Sony has a monopoly on the PlayStation
TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
This is underappreciated. You're not just buying an iPhone, you're buying a system of life accessories. Which has clunky ugly corners, but still sort of works smoothly most of the time. (Mostly.) I'm increasingly convinced Android only exists because it allows Google to pretend it's not just an ad company, and Apple to pretend it's not a monopoly. Apple's stranglehold on the mobile market, with its mix of hardware, software, and content services, is far more extreme than Microsoft's 90s-era stranglehold on the PC desktop.
- rswail 4y ago
  You're taking the perspective from places where iPhones are in a majority, or a plurality of people's pockets. In Asia, Africa, Middle East, South America etc, Android has a much larger share of the market, even if it is spread across large numbers of models and manufacturers. Apple's "stranglehold" is about as strong as it's "stranglehold" on the desktop/laptop market with Macs.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

prepend 4y ago

> The App Store is a fundamental de-facto monopoly on software distribution and (as we've seen with Spotify) service development. This would be true if Android didn’t exist. But it does, so apple isn’t. What would be funny is if Google stops developing android, since it’s lot lucrative, so they can sue under antitrust to improve their ad business that apple keeps hampering.

smoldesu 4y ago
> This would be true if Android didn’t exist. But it does, so apple isn’t. This would be true if iOS and the App Store weren't separate entities. But they are, so it isn't. If Google stops contributing to the AOSP, they would not be able to sue under antitrust because Android still exists.
- prepend 4y ago
  I don’t think Android would retain much market power, especially in the US and Europe, if Google stopped backing it.

kjreact 4y ago

I think the App Store model is probably still currently the best model for the average user who doesn’t know how to secure a computing device. I know we may be heading towards a future where we’re totally locked down, but what alternative do we have? I’m always hesitant to install software on my desktop because I never know if there’s a trojan hidden in the software. I’m a relatively technical user, but I have no idea how I would determine if the software was safe. So at the moment I’m content to let Apple handle it. Note, this is coming from a pro-Apple user. Conversely, it would be interesting if an independent pro-privacy company (such as DuckDuckGo?) were to make a configurable smartphone for the more technical crowd that was both secure and allowed side-loading. I’d like to see such a product offered as an alternative to the offerings from the big tech companies.

smoldesu 4y ago
> I know we may be heading towards a future where we’re totally locked down, but what alternative do we have? Well, Apple could just... let people install other stores. The App Store will still exist for new users and security-paranoid users, but the right to install/manage software needs to be a universal right when you buy hardware from someone. Arguing the opposite is almost insanity. > I’m a relatively technical user, but I have no idea how I would determine if the software was safe. Do what F-Droid does, compare the downloaded binary against a first-party checksum for the release (usually provided by Github). Then you can tell if the software you're loading has been tampered before it runs, simple as that. This is what the App Store does internally (along with cert-checking) to provide your "premium" security experience. It's largely designed to be distributed. > Conversely, it would be interesting if an independent pro-privacy company (such as DuckDuckGo?) were to make a configurable smartphone for the more technical crowd that was both secure and allowed side-loading. That's not the point either. The iPhone is fully capable of loading alternative App Stores and even alternate OSes. Apple is the only one stopping the user from doing these things. The fact that Apple explicitly does not allow people to distribute software unless they profit off has drawn incredible antitrust scrutiny. All of this can and will be alleviated with Apple giving up their iron grip on the 30% tax. What alternative do we have?
- 4y ago

AOsborn 4y ago

> That quite literally cannot be the status quo going forward. Honestly, I disagree. The Apple customer experience and product ecosystem is just so far ahead of any competitors I don't want to use anything else. As far as the store is concerned specifically, I want to be able to use one store with a clear policy around payments, subscriptions and refunds - not a myriad of half-baked competitors with fragmented offerings.

smoldesu 4y ago
That's great, I support that option for you. Personally, I just want to use the Open Source apps that Apple won't let me install. If I can have that, then there's no reason we can't both live in perfect harmony. That system works perfectly fine on Android and Google even manages to make a handsome bundle off the Play Store to boot.
- andsoitis 4y ago
  What are some of the open source apps you use on your Android phone?
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    Glad you asked! Florisboard is a nice minimalist alternative to GBoard. Offers decent theming and lots of settings for haptics/layout, makes a very quick/easy replacement on new devices. NewPipe is a minimalist frontend to YouTube that lets you download videos and use PiP/background playing without paying for Premium (or logging into YouTube, for that matter) Bromite offers a de-Googled Chromium experience for mobile users, pretty barebones and basic. Glider is an awesome FOSS Hacker News client that I use for checking headlines on the go. Hugely recommended if you're an Android user! The last big one I use is KeePassDX, which is a password manager integrated with the open KeePass standard. All my passwords get locked up in a nice encrypted, portable file I sync across my devices. Now, I also use the Play Store for stuff like Discord and Spotify, and iOS users probably would still use the App Store if Cydia became officially supported overnight. That being said, having FOSS replacements for shitty defaults saves the modern Google-based Android experience for me. If they removed sideloading, I'd probably jump ship to a more minimalist fork.

ummonk 4y ago

As a consumer, I’m happy to pay the ~40% premium necessary to have app service subscriptions that are easy to cancel from a single location…

jeromegv 4y ago

Your numbers are wrong. iPhone business is bigger than services by quite a large number https://www.macstories.net/news/apple-reports-expectations-beating-q4-2022-results-of-90-1-billion/ https://www.macstories.net/news/apple-reports-expectations-b... 47% vs 21%

scarface74 4y ago

> iPhones make money, but services make more. The results are there big as day. This is obviously isn’t true. > The App Store alone made over 80 billion dollars in estimated revenue last year, just by existing Apple accounts for revenue as all of the money it takes in for the App Store before distributing 70%-85% to app makers. > for all I care. The App Store is a fundamental de-facto monopoly on software distribution Good thing we have a real judge who has said just the opposite in the Epic vs Apple trial. The judge thought it was foolish to claim that someone had a legal “monopoly” on their own platform. That’s just like saying Sony has a monopoly on the PlayStation

TheOtherHobbes 4y ago

This is underappreciated. You're not just buying an iPhone, you're buying a system of life accessories. Which has clunky ugly corners, but still sort of works smoothly most of the time. (Mostly.) I'm increasingly convinced Android only exists because it allows Google to pretend it's not just an ad company, and Apple to pretend it's not a monopoly. Apple's stranglehold on the mobile market, with its mix of hardware, software, and content services, is far more extreme than Microsoft's 90s-era stranglehold on the PC desktop.

rswail 4y ago
You're taking the perspective from places where iPhones are in a majority, or a plurality of people's pockets. In Asia, Africa, Middle East, South America etc, Android has a much larger share of the market, even if it is spread across large numbers of models and manufacturers. Apple's "stranglehold" is about as strong as it's "stranglehold" on the desktop/laptop market with Macs.