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The recent appearance of hydrogen energy storage has basically refuted this argument. We can now store all of the renewable energy we want. The only problem is

by _hypx 4y ago

The recent appearance of hydrogen energy storage has basically refuted this argument. We can now store all of the renewable energy we want. The only problem is the lack of awareness among environmentalists and engineers.

speakfreely 4y ago
My limited understanding was that the electrolysis tech is not yet efficient enough at scale to make this feasible. Do you have links where I could read more about the cutting edge in hydrogen production? This is a very fascinating potential tool for solving the "we don't have enough batteries" problem with renewables.
- _hypx 4y ago
  The lack of awareness I am talking about also applies to electrolysis. The current state of electrolyzer technology is already good enough to do the job. Future advancements will make this a no-brainer. This is similar to the rise of photovoltaics a decade (which also caught many 'experts' by surprise). Some recent advancements: https://www.energymonitor.ai/tech/hydrogen/toshiba-claims-hydrogen-breakthrough-with-new-p2g-production-technology https://www.energymonitor.ai/tech/hydrogen/toshiba-claims-hy... https://newatlas.com/energy/hysata-efficient-hydrogen-electrolysis/ https://newatlas.com/energy/hysata-efficient-hydrogen-electr... https://energynews.biz/idaho-national-lab-and-bloom-energy-produce-hydrogen-at-record-rates/ https://energynews.biz/idaho-national-lab-and-bloom-energy-p...
- pfdietz 4y ago
  The problem with electrolysis was not its efficiency, the problem was capital cost of the electrolysers (so they could be paired effectively with intermittently overproducing renewables.) Efficiency was more of the concern when it was imagined expensive nuclear power would be driving electrolysers 24/7.
pydry 4y ago
Hydrogen leaks like crazy and corrodes storage cannisters. It isnt especially practical.
- pfdietz 4y ago
  The world produces and uses 700 cubic kilometers (at STP) of hydrogen annually. Hydrogen has been used on a mass scale industrially since the 1800s. The US has over 1000 miles of hydrogen pipelines. There are obviously off the shelf components for dealing with hydrogen. This is not some hand wringing unsolved problem.
  - pydry 4y ago
    It can be used there are just better, cheaper options. Same for compressed air, molten salt, tidal power or a litany of other working tech that doesnt hit the right price/performance point.
    - pfdietz 4y ago
      Better cheaper options for seasonal leveling of a 100% renewable grid, or backing up the grid against rare prolonged renewable outages? Pray tell me about these.

by _hypx 4y ago

speakfreely 4y ago

My limited understanding was that the electrolysis tech is not yet efficient enough at scale to make this feasible. Do you have links where I could read more about the cutting edge in hydrogen production? This is a very fascinating potential tool for solving the "we don't have enough batteries" problem with renewables.

_hypx 4y ago
The lack of awareness I am talking about also applies to electrolysis. The current state of electrolyzer technology is already good enough to do the job. Future advancements will make this a no-brainer. This is similar to the rise of photovoltaics a decade (which also caught many 'experts' by surprise). Some recent advancements: https://www.energymonitor.ai/tech/hydrogen/toshiba-claims-hydrogen-breakthrough-with-new-p2g-production-technology https://www.energymonitor.ai/tech/hydrogen/toshiba-claims-hy... https://newatlas.com/energy/hysata-efficient-hydrogen-electrolysis/ https://newatlas.com/energy/hysata-efficient-hydrogen-electr... https://energynews.biz/idaho-national-lab-and-bloom-energy-produce-hydrogen-at-record-rates/ https://energynews.biz/idaho-national-lab-and-bloom-energy-p...
pfdietz 4y ago
The problem with electrolysis was not its efficiency, the problem was capital cost of the electrolysers (so they could be paired effectively with intermittently overproducing renewables.) Efficiency was more of the concern when it was imagined expensive nuclear power would be driving electrolysers 24/7.

pydry 4y ago

Hydrogen leaks like crazy and corrodes storage cannisters. It isnt especially practical.

pfdietz 4y ago
The world produces and uses 700 cubic kilometers (at STP) of hydrogen annually. Hydrogen has been used on a mass scale industrially since the 1800s. The US has over 1000 miles of hydrogen pipelines. There are obviously off the shelf components for dealing with hydrogen. This is not some hand wringing unsolved problem.
- pydry 4y ago
  It can be used there are just better, cheaper options. Same for compressed air, molten salt, tidal power or a litany of other working tech that doesnt hit the right price/performance point.
  - pfdietz 4y ago
    Better cheaper options for seasonal leveling of a 100% renewable grid, or backing up the grid against rare prolonged renewable outages? Pray tell me about these.