6 ms·

The rise of working remotely and the need for skill guilds

44 points by BrianOnHN 4y ago

PubliusMI 4y ago
Like a consultancy owned by the employees?
- BrianOnHN 4y ago
  Yes, but think even bigger. Where would you meet the people to start that consultancy?
  - mcluck 4y ago
    So a consultancy run by a subreddit?
    - BrianOnHN 4y ago
      Maybe something like a subreddit if it was like a DAO but without the crypto?
- derelicta 4y ago
  so a worker cooperative?
kazinator 4y ago
You can tell in a glance that that wonky image is AI-generated.
- odensc 4y ago
  Makes you wonder if the actual article is AI-generated as well. That blog has a lot of articles about GPT-3 :)
  - BrianOnHN 4y ago
    AI-assisted, but not "generated" imo. This topic is something I will write many more blog posts about. I have lots of notes on various topics, but they aren't in a publishable state. If I were in a better financial position, I would hire a ghost writer to help me work out the drafts. But, I'm not, so GPT-3 helps me with that.
    - sph 4y ago
      You had an AI help you write the article? Yikes. I have better things to do with my time than read generated text, even if edited by a human. How is it better than paying $5 for a content writer, giving them a topic, then posting it on HN?
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - BrianOnHN 4y ago
        I bet me & GPT can write better content than you alone. The content is certainly better than me writing alone. So I'd say your premise is flawed. If only I could have GPT-3 help me stop responding to flame bait, though.
paxys 4y ago
You are describing...a subreddit (and hundreds of other similar forums).
- atraac 4y ago
  Except if you go to most language/tech stack subreddit you'll quite quickly realize there's no experts there, just a bunch of barely experienced people following blog posts blindly. I tried keeping up with .NET subreddit but it's unbearable. Any opinion that differs from any 'fame' like Jimmy Bogard is automatically dismissed and downvoted to hell. You can't really even have a discussion on Reddit anymore.
  - quickthrower2 4y ago
    https://www.reddit.com/r/ExperiencedDevs/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ExperiencedDevs/ is reasonable. Language specific ones are rarely worth it unless you are a beginner or want to help beginners.
    - pydry 4y ago
      There's some good stuff there but counterintuitive stuff that people pick up after a few years' experience that runs counter to common dogma often gets buried.
      - BrianOnHN 4y ago
        As a moderator/manager of communities like these, those are real problems. And unfortunately, I don't think any of the existing platforms have a way to address the lack of and perverse incentives.
  - paxys 4y ago
    "We need a new forum" is never the answer to this, since that will have the exact same problem.
    - 4y ago
Cryptonic 4y ago
Discord? Reddit?
dsign 4y ago
I was reading "The Collapse of Complex Societies," and at some point the author states that complexity is correlated with (skill) specialization... There is nothing wrong with having specialized skills, but blindly believing that those skills will stay relevant forever is risky. And it's easy to fall into that trap when you find yourself an echo chamber of like-minded specialists. "Brian, lizard, come to our guild; we are all cool here, stop that silliness of keeping your eggs in your belly until they hatch. An asteroid is coming? Nah lizard, our guild is insured, full coverage, we will be fine, the market for the stomping trees skill-set is booming!"
- BrianOnHN 4y ago
  That sounds like an interesting book, I will have to check it out. I didn't mean to suggest that a single skill guild is sufficient for any single person. I believe the answer is somewhere in the middle of where we are now, groupings like subreddits, and what you're talking about. Something where participation takes real effort, but in a way that complements other guilds such that members can "cross-pollinate" and grow as an individual opposed to growing into a mold.
ctvo 4y ago
> Members of each guild would be experts in their field and be available to help other members with their work. So much complexity hidden in a single sentence. How? Who attests to the expertise? What's the incentive / mechanism for helping other members "with their work" -- what type of work? Professional work? "The rise of poverty and the need for income equality". Here's why, and these are the benefits. Here's 0 on how we achieve it.
- BrianOnHN 4y ago
  Yes, this was a "test the waters" type of post, and I will be elaborating on my ideas. If we're at the inflection point of changes in how we work, which I think the explosion of remote work may suggest, then we have to completely reconsider what we "know" about work. So, to answer your question, "how?" We need to question every current assumption about work. The system is currently in a malleable state, but that won't last. More questioning assumptions, means more experiments, means more developments. I have my hypotheses, and I'm working on those experiments. I hope to bring together more people that are interested in the same.
  - ctvo 4y ago
    > We need to question every current assumption about work. The system is currently in a malleable state, but that won't last. More questioning assumptions, means more experiments, means more developments. These are weasel words. I'll take you at your word that you're still thinking about it. Here's some random thoughts loosely related to a guild: We miss some things when we're fully remote. A short list for me: - Ad-hoc exposure to new ideas, techniques, and technologies. Glancing over your co-worker's shoulders when you're stopping by and asking what's that is powerful. - Mentoring. I find junior engineers are reluctant to initiate conversations, ask for help, even know how to ask for help in a fully remote environment. Social cues, body language, all these things matter, and without these hints people often won't risk intruding. More on social needs: I don't have a strong connection to colleagues who are fully remote that I've never met in person. Until I meet them in person, it's harder for me to gauge when they're joking, when they're serious, and when they're frustrated. This causes me to keep them at arm's length, and be very measured in every response. I miss casual, in-person connections with like-minded smart professionals. Here's what I want: Something in-person that can address some of the above needs and more -- I'm happy to pay for. It's a bonus if being part of it provides better job opportunities or a stronger signal to employers, though to be frank: There's already a guild for the latter and we call it being an Xoogler / Ex-FANG employee. Maybe a guild per large city with organized events and strong vetting. I guess what I'm talking about is a more formally structured type of meetup++.
majamazz 4y ago
How is this different to existing professional associations (for pretty much any profession) which usually end up charging ridiculous fees?
- BrianOnHN 4y ago
  Maybe a hub-and-spoke model? Themed co-working spaces, interconnected by a virtual space.
sph 4y ago
Be aware that the author admitted (in these comments) that this post has been written with help of GPT-3. It's basically blog spam and/or a social experiment to see how many automated articles they can farm karma with. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33370312 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33370312
- BrianOnHN 4y ago
  > It's basically blog spam and/or a social experiment to see how many automated articles they can farm karma with. Author here. This is a false assumption. I'm only posting content I deeply care about, so the quality matters to me. Nothing is automated at all, it's an iterative process, all done by hand. And lol at "farm karma." Like, why? I will also be writing more about how I use GPT-3 to help me write, so I wouldn't discount my content because I use GPT-3 just yet.

44 points by BrianOnHN 4y ago

PubliusMI 4y ago

Like a consultancy owned by the employees?

BrianOnHN 4y ago
Yes, but think even bigger. Where would you meet the people to start that consultancy?
- mcluck 4y ago
  So a consultancy run by a subreddit?
  - BrianOnHN 4y ago
    Maybe something like a subreddit if it was like a DAO but without the crypto?
derelicta 4y ago
so a worker cooperative?

kazinator 4y ago

You can tell in a glance that that wonky image is AI-generated.

odensc 4y ago
Makes you wonder if the actual article is AI-generated as well. That blog has a lot of articles about GPT-3 :)
- BrianOnHN 4y ago
  AI-assisted, but not "generated" imo. This topic is something I will write many more blog posts about. I have lots of notes on various topics, but they aren't in a publishable state. If I were in a better financial position, I would hire a ghost writer to help me work out the drafts. But, I'm not, so GPT-3 helps me with that.
  - sph 4y ago
    You had an AI help you write the article? Yikes. I have better things to do with my time than read generated text, even if edited by a human. How is it better than paying $5 for a content writer, giving them a topic, then posting it on HN?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - BrianOnHN 4y ago
      I bet me & GPT can write better content than you alone. The content is certainly better than me writing alone. So I'd say your premise is flawed. If only I could have GPT-3 help me stop responding to flame bait, though.

paxys 4y ago

You are describing...a subreddit (and hundreds of other similar forums).

atraac 4y ago
Except if you go to most language/tech stack subreddit you'll quite quickly realize there's no experts there, just a bunch of barely experienced people following blog posts blindly. I tried keeping up with .NET subreddit but it's unbearable. Any opinion that differs from any 'fame' like Jimmy Bogard is automatically dismissed and downvoted to hell. You can't really even have a discussion on Reddit anymore.
- quickthrower2 4y ago
  https://www.reddit.com/r/ExperiencedDevs/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ExperiencedDevs/ is reasonable. Language specific ones are rarely worth it unless you are a beginner or want to help beginners.
  - pydry 4y ago
    There's some good stuff there but counterintuitive stuff that people pick up after a few years' experience that runs counter to common dogma often gets buried.
    - BrianOnHN 4y ago
      As a moderator/manager of communities like these, those are real problems. And unfortunately, I don't think any of the existing platforms have a way to address the lack of and perverse incentives.
- paxys 4y ago
  "We need a new forum" is never the answer to this, since that will have the exact same problem.
  - 4y ago

Cryptonic 4y ago

Discord? Reddit?

dsign 4y ago

I was reading "The Collapse of Complex Societies," and at some point the author states that complexity is correlated with (skill) specialization... There is nothing wrong with having specialized skills, but blindly believing that those skills will stay relevant forever is risky. And it's easy to fall into that trap when you find yourself an echo chamber of like-minded specialists. "Brian, lizard, come to our guild; we are all cool here, stop that silliness of keeping your eggs in your belly until they hatch. An asteroid is coming? Nah lizard, our guild is insured, full coverage, we will be fine, the market for the stomping trees skill-set is booming!"

BrianOnHN 4y ago
That sounds like an interesting book, I will have to check it out. I didn't mean to suggest that a single skill guild is sufficient for any single person. I believe the answer is somewhere in the middle of where we are now, groupings like subreddits, and what you're talking about. Something where participation takes real effort, but in a way that complements other guilds such that members can "cross-pollinate" and grow as an individual opposed to growing into a mold.

ctvo 4y ago

> Members of each guild would be experts in their field and be available to help other members with their work. So much complexity hidden in a single sentence. How? Who attests to the expertise? What's the incentive / mechanism for helping other members "with their work" -- what type of work? Professional work? "The rise of poverty and the need for income equality". Here's why, and these are the benefits. Here's 0 on how we achieve it.

BrianOnHN 4y ago
Yes, this was a "test the waters" type of post, and I will be elaborating on my ideas. If we're at the inflection point of changes in how we work, which I think the explosion of remote work may suggest, then we have to completely reconsider what we "know" about work. So, to answer your question, "how?" We need to question every current assumption about work. The system is currently in a malleable state, but that won't last. More questioning assumptions, means more experiments, means more developments. I have my hypotheses, and I'm working on those experiments. I hope to bring together more people that are interested in the same.
- ctvo 4y ago
  > We need to question every current assumption about work. The system is currently in a malleable state, but that won't last. More questioning assumptions, means more experiments, means more developments. These are weasel words. I'll take you at your word that you're still thinking about it. Here's some random thoughts loosely related to a guild: We miss some things when we're fully remote. A short list for me: - Ad-hoc exposure to new ideas, techniques, and technologies. Glancing over your co-worker's shoulders when you're stopping by and asking what's that is powerful. - Mentoring. I find junior engineers are reluctant to initiate conversations, ask for help, even know how to ask for help in a fully remote environment. Social cues, body language, all these things matter, and without these hints people often won't risk intruding. More on social needs: I don't have a strong connection to colleagues who are fully remote that I've never met in person. Until I meet them in person, it's harder for me to gauge when they're joking, when they're serious, and when they're frustrated. This causes me to keep them at arm's length, and be very measured in every response. I miss casual, in-person connections with like-minded smart professionals. Here's what I want: Something in-person that can address some of the above needs and more -- I'm happy to pay for. It's a bonus if being part of it provides better job opportunities or a stronger signal to employers, though to be frank: There's already a guild for the latter and we call it being an Xoogler / Ex-FANG employee. Maybe a guild per large city with organized events and strong vetting. I guess what I'm talking about is a more formally structured type of meetup++.

majamazz 4y ago

How is this different to existing professional associations (for pretty much any profession) which usually end up charging ridiculous fees?

BrianOnHN 4y ago
Maybe a hub-and-spoke model? Themed co-working spaces, interconnected by a virtual space.

sph 4y ago

Be aware that the author admitted (in these comments) that this post has been written with help of GPT-3. It's basically blog spam and/or a social experiment to see how many automated articles they can farm karma with. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33370312 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33370312

BrianOnHN 4y ago
> It's basically blog spam and/or a social experiment to see how many automated articles they can farm karma with. Author here. This is a false assumption. I'm only posting content I deeply care about, so the quality matters to me. Nothing is automated at all, it's an iterative process, all done by hand. And lol at "farm karma." Like, why? I will also be writing more about how I use GPT-3 to help me write, so I wouldn't discount my content because I use GPT-3 just yet.