4 ms·

Dumb question: which appears most promising? Deno, Just-JS or Bun? (Genuine question. Not trolling)

bastawhiz 4y ago
I think they all serve different use cases. I'm not sure I could say one is more promising than another, because they're _all_ promising, and I don't see them as being in direct competition with each other.
qwertox 4y ago
Your question taught me that Just-JS and Bun exist. Thanks for asking.
hardwaregeek 4y ago
imo just-js and bun are too early to tell. They're in that stage where they're cool and people talk about them, but they haven't gotten to that stage where there's adoption and therefore real criticism. Basically bun/just-js are being judged on their potential, while Deno is starting to be judged on its reality.
stephen 4y ago
My on-the-sidelines take is: Bun seems most promising to me, because it's chasing amazing performance _and_ widespread adoption. Like Just-JS has amazing performance [1], but the author is "just" (a very amazing/talented) benchmark hacker and not necessarily trying/wanting to put in the effort to have "a node replacement" and/or extend his Techempower-specific optimizations into APIs/libraries that would affect the performance day-to-day business apps (which I don't blame him for). Deno is kinda :shrug: b/c its original "great security" pitch doesn't really matter to anyone who runs in containers. [1]: https://github.com/just-js/just.billywhizz.io/issues/3 https://github.com/just-js/just.billywhizz.io/issues/3
- Mutjake 4y ago
  As a quick note, while containers offer a degree of isolation, depending on your use case you might not want to put too many eggs into that basket (Linux privilege escalation bugs do happen). E.g. Firecracker VM is a relatively easy improvement to make of course, and on cloud env the container isolation might be Amazon’s/Microsoft’s problem. Just figured it would be good to mention not to see containers as a silver bullet, while they are better than not using containers on a shared host (and a useful tool in general :-)
kitsonk 4y ago
The author of Just-JS is working on Deno as well.
agumonkey 4y ago
the three, after they merge into one :)
- Petersipoi 4y ago
  While I suspect you're joking.. this doesn't seem likely given that all 3 are written in different languages
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
brundolf 4y ago
From the little I've read about just-js, I'm not sure it's even trying to be a competitor with the others for their main use-cases I think Deno has the strongest overall vision, and it's a vision I really want to see become the new default Bun is compelling with its blistering pace and its ruthless dedication to performance, compatibility, and Just Works user experience. However, it's still very new and missing a lot of key features, and subjectively it just feels too "chaotic" for my tastes. They're designing it as they go, as fast as they can, but it feels like a wild ride. I'm not sure the creator even knows exactly where it'll end up, and in general it seems to prioritize "does everything you'd like it to right now" over "lay a new, better foundation for how the JS ecosystem works, unburdened by the historical baggage of Node" Two very different mindsets; it'll be really interesting to see which one wins. Personally I'm rooting for Deno, but I think each of them is pushing the other one to be better.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- sramam 4y ago
  > unburdened by the historical baggage of Node Is this even possible anymore? Deno made a valiant attempt, but with every release, the best received update seems to be the node/npm compatibility.
  - brundolf 4y ago
    I see NPM compatibility as a temporary stopgap. They tried to make a hard break all at once, and then Bun made it clear that no, actually people still really want access to that existing ecosystem for now. But new code written for Deno starts out on that better foundation without CommonJS, several different module-resolution algorithms, manual transpilation, competing linting and testing standards, etc etc. They just need to bridge the gap in the meantime, until Deno's own ecosystem gets more filled out. That's the dream anyway.
    - SOLAR_FIELDS 4y ago
      The pedigree of Deno does speak for at least something as well. Who better to address the flaws of a lasting project someone created than the creator themselves? Just from incentive alignment it’s a powerful motivator.
mattwad 4y ago
My guess is none of them will ever replace Node.js, but they will all help shift the momentum of Node.js to be faster, better support for Typescript, etc. Similar to how folks created io.js at one point and that eventually got merged back into Node.js. Deno seems like to offer a better dev experience, and because it's created by Dahl it's the only one I take seriously as an alternative.
ilrwbwrkhv 4y ago
Bun is the most excited I have ever been in the JavaScript ecosystem.
8K832d7tNmiQ 4y ago
I'd say deno, because they've already established a proper ecosystem since day one, has a working usage such as Deno Deploy[0] and Fresh[1], and already addresses some issues about distribution issue on Node, while bun still acts like a replacement for Node. [0]:https://deno.com/deploy https://deno.com/deploy [1]:https://fresh.deno.dev/ https://fresh.deno.dev/
justinmchase 4y ago
I have nothing bad to say about the other two but Deno is pretty great, I'm hoping it topples node.js at least, it seems poised to do so. Really lookin forward to playing with deno deploy too.

I think they all serve different use cases. I'm not sure I could say one is more promising than another, because they're _all_ promising, and I don't see them as being in direct competition with each other.

qwertox 4y ago

Your question taught me that Just-JS and Bun exist. Thanks for asking.

hardwaregeek 4y ago

imo just-js and bun are too early to tell. They're in that stage where they're cool and people talk about them, but they haven't gotten to that stage where there's adoption and therefore real criticism. Basically bun/just-js are being judged on their potential, while Deno is starting to be judged on its reality.

stephen 4y ago

My on-the-sidelines take is: Bun seems most promising to me, because it's chasing amazing performance _and_ widespread adoption. Like Just-JS has amazing performance [1], but the author is "just" (a very amazing/talented) benchmark hacker and not necessarily trying/wanting to put in the effort to have "a node replacement" and/or extend his Techempower-specific optimizations into APIs/libraries that would affect the performance day-to-day business apps (which I don't blame him for). Deno is kinda :shrug: b/c its original "great security" pitch doesn't really matter to anyone who runs in containers. [1]: https://github.com/just-js/just.billywhizz.io/issues/3 https://github.com/just-js/just.billywhizz.io/issues/3

Mutjake 4y ago
As a quick note, while containers offer a degree of isolation, depending on your use case you might not want to put too many eggs into that basket (Linux privilege escalation bugs do happen). E.g. Firecracker VM is a relatively easy improvement to make of course, and on cloud env the container isolation might be Amazon’s/Microsoft’s problem. Just figured it would be good to mention not to see containers as a silver bullet, while they are better than not using containers on a shared host (and a useful tool in general :-)

kitsonk 4y ago

The author of Just-JS is working on Deno as well.

agumonkey 4y ago

the three, after they merge into one :)

Petersipoi 4y ago
While I suspect you're joking.. this doesn't seem likely given that all 3 are written in different languages

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

brundolf 4y ago

From the little I've read about just-js, I'm not sure it's even trying to be a competitor with the others for their main use-cases I think Deno has the strongest overall vision, and it's a vision I really want to see become the new default Bun is compelling with its blistering pace and its ruthless dedication to performance, compatibility, and Just Works user experience. However, it's still very new and missing a lot of key features, and subjectively it just feels too "chaotic" for my tastes. They're designing it as they go, as fast as they can, but it feels like a wild ride. I'm not sure the creator even knows exactly where it'll end up, and in general it seems to prioritize "does everything you'd like it to right now" over "lay a new, better foundation for how the JS ecosystem works, unburdened by the historical baggage of Node" Two very different mindsets; it'll be really interesting to see which one wins. Personally I'm rooting for Deno, but I think each of them is pushing the other one to be better.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
sramam 4y ago
> unburdened by the historical baggage of Node Is this even possible anymore? Deno made a valiant attempt, but with every release, the best received update seems to be the node/npm compatibility.
- brundolf 4y ago
  I see NPM compatibility as a temporary stopgap. They tried to make a hard break all at once, and then Bun made it clear that no, actually people still really want access to that existing ecosystem for now. But new code written for Deno starts out on that better foundation without CommonJS, several different module-resolution algorithms, manual transpilation, competing linting and testing standards, etc etc. They just need to bridge the gap in the meantime, until Deno's own ecosystem gets more filled out. That's the dream anyway.
  - SOLAR_FIELDS 4y ago
    The pedigree of Deno does speak for at least something as well. Who better to address the flaws of a lasting project someone created than the creator themselves? Just from incentive alignment it’s a powerful motivator.

mattwad 4y ago

My guess is none of them will ever replace Node.js, but they will all help shift the momentum of Node.js to be faster, better support for Typescript, etc. Similar to how folks created io.js at one point and that eventually got merged back into Node.js. Deno seems like to offer a better dev experience, and because it's created by Dahl it's the only one I take seriously as an alternative.

ilrwbwrkhv 4y ago

Bun is the most excited I have ever been in the JavaScript ecosystem.

8K832d7tNmiQ 4y ago

I'd say deno, because they've already established a proper ecosystem since day one, has a working usage such as Deno Deploy[0] and Fresh[1], and already addresses some issues about distribution issue on Node, while bun still acts like a replacement for Node. [0]:https://deno.com/deploy https://deno.com/deploy [1]:https://fresh.deno.dev/ https://fresh.deno.dev/

justinmchase 4y ago

I have nothing bad to say about the other two but Deno is pretty great, I'm hoping it topples node.js at least, it seems poised to do so. Really lookin forward to playing with deno deploy too.