4 ms·

It's telling that some people find damaging a painting more heinous than damaging all of humanity. (Also no works of art were actually damaged. But I still thi

It's telling that some people find damaging a painting more heinous than damaging all of humanity. (Also no works of art were actually damaged. But I still think it's important to note how much this upsets you, but general ruining of the earth doesn't seem to)

algorias 4y ago
The thing is that while most people agree climate change is real, it's not clear at all what the actual damage to humanity will be. IME said hypothetical damage is hugely overblown by activists, who talk as if the end of humanity was certain.
rnd0 4y ago
That argument is insanely stupid and assumes that one isn't upset about this IN ADDITION TO already being upset about our impending ecological future. Sir or madam, it is quite possible to be upset about two things at the same time; thank you.
- noobermin 4y ago
  Here's a midler analogy (sincerely) "I am mad the perp assaulted a woman, but the woman cried about it very loudly and that was annoying to me. I can be mad about two things at once." Being upset about a painting and putting it on the same scale of societal collapse is a great example of equivocation that cheapens the greater harm.
- MildlySerious 4y ago
  The way I think of it is that if you are already concerned about the future due to climate change etc., then you are not the target audience for this sort of action. The whole point I take from it is that it is an attempt to raise awareness through "if you're upset about this, there's no excuse for you not to be upset about that" If you're already in the loop on climate change and what's ahead of us - yeah, all that's left for you in this act is to be upset about the act itself. I wish it wasn't necessary do stuff like this, but I am not at all certain anymore that it isn't. If warning government officials does nothing, and warning the public does nothing, and scientists urging for action does nothing, and presenting reports and articles does nothing, and hanging up banners and buying ads does nothing, and protesting in front of government buildings does nothing, and protesting in front of "big oil" HQs does nothing, and protesting in the streets does nothing, and children skipping schools to protest does nothing, and throughout all this, voting does nothing because there are still not enough people that care enough about these issues, and politicians still take steps to make things worse, what's left to do? What's the next step? I don't know anymore. I'm sure others feel the same way, which is why I'm not surprised desperate and hard to reason about acts like this end up happening.
boredhedgehog 4y ago
This difference might be another instance of conflicting moral foundations (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_foundations_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_foundations_theory). The painting is ours; it's concrete, and something beautiful threatened by chaotic, lawless vandalism. That some vague 'humanity', or a potential threat to some distant country in some distant future is more important than that will appear obvious only to the group with the reduced set of moral foundations.
Lonestar1440 4y ago
I think that a world with 2d of warming AND damaged paintings is clearly worse than one with 2d of warming AND NOT damaged paintings. I see this fundamental flaw in reasoning frequently in "Activist" culture. Desiring that The Action lead to The Greater Good doesn't change the fact that, today 27 October 2022, we have a damaged painting but no policy change.
tomjen3 4y ago
Earth is going to be destroyed by climate change anyway, nothing we can effectively do other than drastically limit the number of people born in the world, but the only way to do that would be unconsiable. But we don't have to destroy the art, in addition to the effects of climate change.
- rad_gruchalski 4y ago
  > nothing we can effectively do other than drastically limit the number of people born in the world, but the only way to do that would be unconsiable The elephant in the room.

algorias 4y ago

The thing is that while most people agree climate change is real, it's not clear at all what the actual damage to humanity will be. IME said hypothetical damage is hugely overblown by activists, who talk as if the end of humanity was certain.

rnd0 4y ago

That argument is insanely stupid and assumes that one isn't upset about this IN ADDITION TO already being upset about our impending ecological future. Sir or madam, it is quite possible to be upset about two things at the same time; thank you.

noobermin 4y ago
Here's a midler analogy (sincerely) "I am mad the perp assaulted a woman, but the woman cried about it very loudly and that was annoying to me. I can be mad about two things at once." Being upset about a painting and putting it on the same scale of societal collapse is a great example of equivocation that cheapens the greater harm.
MildlySerious 4y ago
The way I think of it is that if you are already concerned about the future due to climate change etc., then you are not the target audience for this sort of action. The whole point I take from it is that it is an attempt to raise awareness through "if you're upset about this, there's no excuse for you not to be upset about that" If you're already in the loop on climate change and what's ahead of us - yeah, all that's left for you in this act is to be upset about the act itself. I wish it wasn't necessary do stuff like this, but I am not at all certain anymore that it isn't. If warning government officials does nothing, and warning the public does nothing, and scientists urging for action does nothing, and presenting reports and articles does nothing, and hanging up banners and buying ads does nothing, and protesting in front of government buildings does nothing, and protesting in front of "big oil" HQs does nothing, and protesting in the streets does nothing, and children skipping schools to protest does nothing, and throughout all this, voting does nothing because there are still not enough people that care enough about these issues, and politicians still take steps to make things worse, what's left to do? What's the next step? I don't know anymore. I'm sure others feel the same way, which is why I'm not surprised desperate and hard to reason about acts like this end up happening.

boredhedgehog 4y ago

This difference might be another instance of conflicting moral foundations (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_foundations_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_foundations_theory). The painting is ours; it's concrete, and something beautiful threatened by chaotic, lawless vandalism. That some vague 'humanity', or a potential threat to some distant country in some distant future is more important than that will appear obvious only to the group with the reduced set of moral foundations.

Lonestar1440 4y ago

I think that a world with 2d of warming AND damaged paintings is clearly worse than one with 2d of warming AND NOT damaged paintings. I see this fundamental flaw in reasoning frequently in "Activist" culture. Desiring that The Action lead to The Greater Good doesn't change the fact that, today 27 October 2022, we have a damaged painting but no policy change.

tomjen3 4y ago

Earth is going to be destroyed by climate change anyway, nothing we can effectively do other than drastically limit the number of people born in the world, but the only way to do that would be unconsiable. But we don't have to destroy the art, in addition to the effects of climate change.

rad_gruchalski 4y ago
> nothing we can effectively do other than drastically limit the number of people born in the world, but the only way to do that would be unconsiable The elephant in the room.