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Oh great, only 300TWH of batteries! Let's put in the P.O.! Who is supplying those, again?

bryanlarsen 4y ago
300TWh of batteries per decade is a lot easier than 90 million barrels of oil per day yet somehow we manage to do the latter.
- jjk166 4y ago
  At current battery prices of $132/kwh and oil at $88/barrel, 300 TWh of batteries per decade is actually 40% more expensive than 90 million barrels of oil per day.
  - megaman821 4y ago
    Damn, we are that close. We are using expensive, high-density batteries meant for electronics and transportation for stationary storage. CATL is already claiming $40-$50/kwh for sodium ion batteries that begin production next year. In five years there will be even more grid-targeting battery solutions on the market at low price points.
    - scythe 4y ago
      From a practical business perspective, the falling prices of batteries may not be ideal from an investor's perspective. If I buy $100M of batteries and the price drops 50% in five years, I just "lost" 50 million dollars. You'd have to be at a point where the proceeds to storage exceed the depreciation of the product in order to pencil out, I think. So a lot of storage that could be built probably won't be built until the technology war shakes out. >CATL is already claiming $40-$50/kwh for sodium ion batteries that begin production next year. Tried to look this up, but didn't find anything. Where's that?
      - megaman821 4y ago
        To be fair they stated it in the most roundabout way (40%-50% cheaper than LFP batteries) and with no time horizon. I think I got that from reports on their recent shareholder meeting but I will have to look it up better.
7952 4y ago
Its not like you can easily sign a PO for a pumped storage site either. Large scale civil engineering is still difficult in most places. And surely it requires lots of survey and design work. With batteries you can design the site, get consents and order battery units off the peg in under a year.

300TWh of batteries per decade is a lot easier than 90 million barrels of oil per day yet somehow we manage to do the latter.

jjk166 4y ago
At current battery prices of $132/kwh and oil at $88/barrel, 300 TWh of batteries per decade is actually 40% more expensive than 90 million barrels of oil per day.
- megaman821 4y ago
  Damn, we are that close. We are using expensive, high-density batteries meant for electronics and transportation for stationary storage. CATL is already claiming $40-$50/kwh for sodium ion batteries that begin production next year. In five years there will be even more grid-targeting battery solutions on the market at low price points.
  - scythe 4y ago
    From a practical business perspective, the falling prices of batteries may not be ideal from an investor's perspective. If I buy $100M of batteries and the price drops 50% in five years, I just "lost" 50 million dollars. You'd have to be at a point where the proceeds to storage exceed the depreciation of the product in order to pencil out, I think. So a lot of storage that could be built probably won't be built until the technology war shakes out. >CATL is already claiming $40-$50/kwh for sodium ion batteries that begin production next year. Tried to look this up, but didn't find anything. Where's that?
    - megaman821 4y ago
      To be fair they stated it in the most roundabout way (40%-50% cheaper than LFP batteries) and with no time horizon. I think I got that from reports on their recent shareholder meeting but I will have to look it up better.

7952 4y ago

Its not like you can easily sign a PO for a pumped storage site either. Large scale civil engineering is still difficult in most places. And surely it requires lots of survey and design work. With batteries you can design the site, get consents and order battery units off the peg in under a year.