7 ms·

As a consumer, I’ve actually come to prefer in app purchases. I love when a subscription is available on IAP because for something like a newspaper, I know that

As a consumer, I’ve actually come to prefer in app purchases. I love when a subscription is available on IAP because for something like a newspaper, I know that I can cancel it with a couple of taps instead of having to fill out some long retention form or call someone.

sweetheart 4y ago
I think I feel similarly, to be honest. While I don't think I'd be less likely to buy something I wanted if an in-app purchase wasn't available, I've always been thankful when I realized I bought something or set up a subscription via Apple because I feel their incentive isn't to make managing that purchase difficult, so their UX for control over subscriptions has been great. Though, at face value, I do see the argument for giving folks the option to make the purchase how they want, which may mean doing it in the app but not using Apple's APIs. I dunno, I don't have strong feelings about any of this, so it always surprises me when companies try to make such a big deal of it. Sure, it affects their bottom line, but let's not pretend like I should care about that.
amykhar 4y ago
Exactly. It's not that Spotify can't do in app purchases. They just don't want to pay for the privilege.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  Because they exist in a highly competitive market where Apple Music can provide in app purchases without paying the extra tax.
wobbly_bush 4y ago
Are you also willing to pay the extra Apple tax for this convenience instead of expecting the subscription provider to eat those costs?
- hombre_fatal 4y ago
  Depends on the product and the tax. Looks like I'm paying more via IAP for Youtube ($16 vs $12/mo) and Audible ($16 vs $8/mo ???) according to the prices listed on their website. Half of the services out there probably charge you extra just because you don't have to go through their scummy "cancel subscription" website pipeline. They probably lose millions on that along with the fact that I get an iOS notification when my IAP subscriptions renew. One crappy autorenewing service charging my credit card directly has cost me more than IAP taxes ever will. As far as I'm concerned, IAP saves me money and the status quo for rebilling in the USA only benefits the bad actors.
  - amerkhalid 4y ago
    Especially when trying a new service, I rather pay slightly higher fee than risk dealing with scummy cancellation process. But I may switch payment method if I decide to keep the service longterm.
  - throwaway277432 4y ago
    YouTube is very easy to cancel and not at all scummy, you just need to click one button and it works. Easy 4$ saved per month. I cancelled and then resubscribed at least 5 times this year and it was never an issue (I'm trying to cut down on YouTube which is why I cancelled so many times).
  - dmitriid 4y ago
    > Half of the services out there probably charge you extra just because you don't have to go through their scummy "cancel subscription" website pipeline Or because Apple charges 30% for IAP which is huge when your base price already is 10-15 dollars.
  - jasonlotito 4y ago
    Apple could enforce a clean cancel sub process. They do not. So, instead of making things better for you, the user, you just pay more for them to do nothing.
corobo 4y ago
iOS will remind you you've got an active subscription going if you delete the relevant app too, that's a nice touch
fleddr 4y ago
Fine if you prefer that, but this is no reason for Apple to enforce it as the only allowed option.
- nerdjon 4y ago
  If apple opens the floodgates allowing these purchases outside of this option, why would a company give apple's option to consumers? Apple enforcing it is the only reason as a consumer I don't have to deal with park patterns for many of the apps I use. Which is a good thing for consumers
  - waboremo 4y ago
    You mean Apple would have to be competitive regarding their own services for once? Actually have it make financial sense and provide a seamless experience for companies so they're encouraged to use it rather than forced? No... that can't be a good thing for consumers.
    - nerdjon 4y ago
      Are we talking about the same thing here? I am talking about payment services. Most companies will do everything they can to screw over the consumer. Especially once they have you in a subscription. As a consumer I would rather these companies be forced to not do shady practices and have to conform to a uniform way of purchases and subscriptions. I have been in too many meetings about "User Retention", if given the chance very few companies will choose to loose the ability to bash the user over the head with "are you sure you want to cancel" or "please call to cancel". Apple forces it. Edit: Put Another Way: Apple giving developer the choice of wether or not to use their system removes MY choice as a consumer to avoid scummy business practices (Which are often not on display until you no longer want to do business with them).
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - smoldesu 4y ago
nerdjon 4y ago
This is 100% how I feel. Too many of these companies have dark patterns for canceling your subscription (or hoping you forget you have one) that I actively stay away from most services that I can't just use an IAP with. This is largely thanks to all of this being consolidated in a single UI where with just a couple clicks (without ever needing to open the app and dealing with their marketing or 20 questions) I can cancel a subscription. Apple will email me when a yearly subscription is about to bill, clearly telling me how I can manage or cancel it (again outside of the app). I understand why businesses may not like this, but as a consumer I value this heavily (and yes I do find myself annoyed by what I often hear also being in the tech industry). At the same time for individual digital purchases I don't want to give every company my credit card. I would much rather that go through Apple. I understand the concern about the "30% cut" but I wish these companies would also realize that I (and I assume many others) spend more money though my phone because I can do it through Apple where otherwise you would not be getting my money in the first place. So its 70% or nothing from me. Especially when there are alternatives that will be more than happy to take that money from me. That doesn't mean that I don't use my credit card in some places. But those are for physical items. Likely at stores that already have my credit card in the first place. At the end of the day, it is Spotify that is choosing to make customers jump through hoops. They chose to enter this market knowing that this will be an issue (if they did not expect this issue... honestly fire whoever decided to go into this market).
- firefoxkekw 4y ago
  This so much, specially when I think of my parents and older love ones, 30% is nothing compared to being in the wild west of dark patterns. Reputation have a price, Apple may not be perfect but I can trust that they aren't going to deceive my parents or make their life more difficult when trying to use technology. At least personally, I would much rather pay a bit more than opening the door to cheaper prices at cost of Apple losing one of their big advantages, trustworthiness.
  - earth2mars 4y ago
    We should have regulation on dark patterns. Not paying 30% more abs giving more power to monopoly. Why is it so hard.you can literally sue companies for dark patterns and hey more money.i did that once with ATT and got more than they said I owe them for dark subscribing to tv when i only wanted internet. I didn't had to spend a single penny nor visit any court.all out of court settlement. You make them accountable for such practices.and as a consumer you should fight against apple to lower subscription fee if the seller can sell at least price
Aachen 4y ago
You must not be from here. Never once did I have trouble cancelling anything, maybe it's a Dutch or even a European thing? I keep hearing of "retention department"s and such. Completely foreign to me. Paying 30% more for all your subscriptions sounds like an interesting way of dealing with that problem.
jonplackett 4y ago
For subscriptions, 100% agree For buying one off products. Don’t wan to be using in-app purchase. I seem to suddenly be able to buy audiobooks in audible now though? Or at least use my credits. When did that happen?
wavler 4y ago
I too mostly prefer subscribing to services via IAP, but I’d also like the option to do one-time purchases without the 30% markup. While you could argue enabling the purchase justifies this markup, forbidding the mention of alternative methods seems like an artificial constraint.
arsome 4y ago
Sure, but I'd rather pay a 2% PayPal tax for that ability than a 30% Apple tax.
adrr 4y ago
Apple could just mandate IAP but also allow the app publisher to offer their own methods. It would force competition in pricing. IAP fee ultimately is passed to the consumer. Companies need to make their margins.
- infogulch 4y ago
  This is clearly the best option. Apple would be pressured to reduce their prices and/or increase the app store value, app publishers would be incentivized to not use sleazy subscription cancelling practices.
pornel 4y ago
As a consumer, I'd prefer competition to exist, so that I don't pay 10x higher markup on digital payments for no reason other than Apple being able to get away with extortion and price gouging. Apple forbids informing users about the extra cost they're paying for using IAP. Apple forbids informing users that any competing payment method may exist anywhere else. Apple forbids having cheaper prices elsewhere.
jasonlotito 4y ago
So, none of that has anything to do with IAP. It simply requires that the person be able to cancel easily and in a standardized way. And Apple could enforce that. That's the whole point of having a review process, an app review, all that. Apple could enforce that, but they choose not to.

sweetheart 4y ago

I think I feel similarly, to be honest. While I don't think I'd be less likely to buy something I wanted if an in-app purchase wasn't available, I've always been thankful when I realized I bought something or set up a subscription via Apple because I feel their incentive isn't to make managing that purchase difficult, so their UX for control over subscriptions has been great. Though, at face value, I do see the argument for giving folks the option to make the purchase how they want, which may mean doing it in the app but not using Apple's APIs. I dunno, I don't have strong feelings about any of this, so it always surprises me when companies try to make such a big deal of it. Sure, it affects their bottom line, but let's not pretend like I should care about that.

amykhar 4y ago

Exactly. It's not that Spotify can't do in app purchases. They just don't want to pay for the privilege.

Gigachad 4y ago
Because they exist in a highly competitive market where Apple Music can provide in app purchases without paying the extra tax.

wobbly_bush 4y ago

Are you also willing to pay the extra Apple tax for this convenience instead of expecting the subscription provider to eat those costs?

hombre_fatal 4y ago
Depends on the product and the tax. Looks like I'm paying more via IAP for Youtube ($16 vs $12/mo) and Audible ($16 vs $8/mo ???) according to the prices listed on their website. Half of the services out there probably charge you extra just because you don't have to go through their scummy "cancel subscription" website pipeline. They probably lose millions on that along with the fact that I get an iOS notification when my IAP subscriptions renew. One crappy autorenewing service charging my credit card directly has cost me more than IAP taxes ever will. As far as I'm concerned, IAP saves me money and the status quo for rebilling in the USA only benefits the bad actors.
- amerkhalid 4y ago
  Especially when trying a new service, I rather pay slightly higher fee than risk dealing with scummy cancellation process. But I may switch payment method if I decide to keep the service longterm.
- throwaway277432 4y ago
  YouTube is very easy to cancel and not at all scummy, you just need to click one button and it works. Easy 4$ saved per month. I cancelled and then resubscribed at least 5 times this year and it was never an issue (I'm trying to cut down on YouTube which is why I cancelled so many times).
- dmitriid 4y ago
  > Half of the services out there probably charge you extra just because you don't have to go through their scummy "cancel subscription" website pipeline Or because Apple charges 30% for IAP which is huge when your base price already is 10-15 dollars.
- jasonlotito 4y ago
  Apple could enforce a clean cancel sub process. They do not. So, instead of making things better for you, the user, you just pay more for them to do nothing.

corobo 4y ago

iOS will remind you you've got an active subscription going if you delete the relevant app too, that's a nice touch

fleddr 4y ago

Fine if you prefer that, but this is no reason for Apple to enforce it as the only allowed option.

nerdjon 4y ago
If apple opens the floodgates allowing these purchases outside of this option, why would a company give apple's option to consumers? Apple enforcing it is the only reason as a consumer I don't have to deal with park patterns for many of the apps I use. Which is a good thing for consumers
- waboremo 4y ago
  You mean Apple would have to be competitive regarding their own services for once? Actually have it make financial sense and provide a seamless experience for companies so they're encouraged to use it rather than forced? No... that can't be a good thing for consumers.
  - nerdjon 4y ago
    Are we talking about the same thing here? I am talking about payment services. Most companies will do everything they can to screw over the consumer. Especially once they have you in a subscription. As a consumer I would rather these companies be forced to not do shady practices and have to conform to a uniform way of purchases and subscriptions. I have been in too many meetings about "User Retention", if given the chance very few companies will choose to loose the ability to bash the user over the head with "are you sure you want to cancel" or "please call to cancel". Apple forces it. Edit: Put Another Way: Apple giving developer the choice of wether or not to use their system removes MY choice as a consumer to avoid scummy business practices (Which are often not on display until you no longer want to do business with them).
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - smoldesu 4y ago

nerdjon 4y ago

This is 100% how I feel. Too many of these companies have dark patterns for canceling your subscription (or hoping you forget you have one) that I actively stay away from most services that I can't just use an IAP with. This is largely thanks to all of this being consolidated in a single UI where with just a couple clicks (without ever needing to open the app and dealing with their marketing or 20 questions) I can cancel a subscription. Apple will email me when a yearly subscription is about to bill, clearly telling me how I can manage or cancel it (again outside of the app). I understand why businesses may not like this, but as a consumer I value this heavily (and yes I do find myself annoyed by what I often hear also being in the tech industry). At the same time for individual digital purchases I don't want to give every company my credit card. I would much rather that go through Apple. I understand the concern about the "30% cut" but I wish these companies would also realize that I (and I assume many others) spend more money though my phone because I can do it through Apple where otherwise you would not be getting my money in the first place. So its 70% or nothing from me. Especially when there are alternatives that will be more than happy to take that money from me. That doesn't mean that I don't use my credit card in some places. But those are for physical items. Likely at stores that already have my credit card in the first place. At the end of the day, it is Spotify that is choosing to make customers jump through hoops. They chose to enter this market knowing that this will be an issue (if they did not expect this issue... honestly fire whoever decided to go into this market).

firefoxkekw 4y ago
This so much, specially when I think of my parents and older love ones, 30% is nothing compared to being in the wild west of dark patterns. Reputation have a price, Apple may not be perfect but I can trust that they aren't going to deceive my parents or make their life more difficult when trying to use technology. At least personally, I would much rather pay a bit more than opening the door to cheaper prices at cost of Apple losing one of their big advantages, trustworthiness.
- earth2mars 4y ago
  We should have regulation on dark patterns. Not paying 30% more abs giving more power to monopoly. Why is it so hard.you can literally sue companies for dark patterns and hey more money.i did that once with ATT and got more than they said I owe them for dark subscribing to tv when i only wanted internet. I didn't had to spend a single penny nor visit any court.all out of court settlement. You make them accountable for such practices.and as a consumer you should fight against apple to lower subscription fee if the seller can sell at least price

Aachen 4y ago

You must not be from here. Never once did I have trouble cancelling anything, maybe it's a Dutch or even a European thing? I keep hearing of "retention department"s and such. Completely foreign to me. Paying 30% more for all your subscriptions sounds like an interesting way of dealing with that problem.

jonplackett 4y ago

For subscriptions, 100% agree For buying one off products. Don’t wan to be using in-app purchase. I seem to suddenly be able to buy audiobooks in audible now though? Or at least use my credits. When did that happen?

wavler 4y ago

I too mostly prefer subscribing to services via IAP, but I’d also like the option to do one-time purchases without the 30% markup. While you could argue enabling the purchase justifies this markup, forbidding the mention of alternative methods seems like an artificial constraint.

arsome 4y ago

Sure, but I'd rather pay a 2% PayPal tax for that ability than a 30% Apple tax.

adrr 4y ago

Apple could just mandate IAP but also allow the app publisher to offer their own methods. It would force competition in pricing. IAP fee ultimately is passed to the consumer. Companies need to make their margins.

infogulch 4y ago
This is clearly the best option. Apple would be pressured to reduce their prices and/or increase the app store value, app publishers would be incentivized to not use sleazy subscription cancelling practices.

pornel 4y ago

As a consumer, I'd prefer competition to exist, so that I don't pay 10x higher markup on digital payments for no reason other than Apple being able to get away with extortion and price gouging. Apple forbids informing users about the extra cost they're paying for using IAP. Apple forbids informing users that any competing payment method may exist anywhere else. Apple forbids having cheaper prices elsewhere.

jasonlotito 4y ago

So, none of that has anything to do with IAP. It simply requires that the person be able to cancel easily and in a standardized way. And Apple could enforce that. That's the whole point of having a review process, an app review, all that. Apple could enforce that, but they choose not to.