5 ms·

Indeed, it promotes inaction because the goal is so impossible you might as well not even try. Better to set a goal we can still actually achieve and take the

Indeed, it promotes inaction because the goal is so impossible you might as well not even try. Better to set a goal we can still actually achieve and take the consequences of that level for granted.

tejohnso 4y ago
A goal we can actually achieve results in the collapse of civilization. But that doesn't sell well. Not many want to take that for granted. Any better consequence than that requires very significant changes from BAU and so lots of short term pain. Especially for the wealthy. And so we're back to impossible.
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  > A goal we can actually achieve results in the collapse of civilization. I don't think so, that's a bit dramatic. Some areas will be destroyed. Some will be much less livable. Some will be ok. Some will be better off, think Siberia or Canada. Especially in the northern hemisphere that has more land in the higher latitudes. Besides the destruction of viable cities especially on coasts a big problem is the mass migration that this will cause. It's a huge problem for sure. But civilisation-ending? I don't think so.
  - tejohnso 4y ago
    > that's a bit dramatic I suppose so. But no more dramatic than the collapse of many previous civilizations. It's not an unheard of occurrence. Especially when faced with sudden loss of habitat. > Some areas will be destroyed...destruction of viable cities...mass migration... So you think that's all going to happen, and then what...somehow the climate system is going to return to a habitable, stable state? We're in the midst of abrupt and irreversible climate change, with tipping points triggering further tipping points. And even if somehow the climate system stabilizes, we'd already be well on the way to collapse of civilization, and we'd have to deal with all of this social upheaval and habitat destruction in a sane, non-destructive manner. I think that history, climate projections, and known human behaviour are all pushing the odds toward civilization collapse, and possibly another extinction in the genus Homo.
benj111 4y ago
When the goal was set it was achievable and we didn't do anything, why would it be different the second time around?
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  Because we're really feeling the consequences now. All over the world.
  - benj111 4y ago
    Well surely that's more motivation to meet the current target. Except even though we're all feeling the consequences we're still not really doing enough.

Indeed, it promotes inaction because the goal is so impossible you might as well not even try. Better to set a goal we can still actually achieve and take the consequences of that level for granted.

tejohnso 4y ago

A goal we can actually achieve results in the collapse of civilization. But that doesn't sell well. Not many want to take that for granted. Any better consequence than that requires very significant changes from BAU and so lots of short term pain. Especially for the wealthy. And so we're back to impossible.

GekkePrutser 4y ago
> A goal we can actually achieve results in the collapse of civilization. I don't think so, that's a bit dramatic. Some areas will be destroyed. Some will be much less livable. Some will be ok. Some will be better off, think Siberia or Canada. Especially in the northern hemisphere that has more land in the higher latitudes. Besides the destruction of viable cities especially on coasts a big problem is the mass migration that this will cause. It's a huge problem for sure. But civilisation-ending? I don't think so.
- tejohnso 4y ago
  > that's a bit dramatic I suppose so. But no more dramatic than the collapse of many previous civilizations. It's not an unheard of occurrence. Especially when faced with sudden loss of habitat. > Some areas will be destroyed...destruction of viable cities...mass migration... So you think that's all going to happen, and then what...somehow the climate system is going to return to a habitable, stable state? We're in the midst of abrupt and irreversible climate change, with tipping points triggering further tipping points. And even if somehow the climate system stabilizes, we'd already be well on the way to collapse of civilization, and we'd have to deal with all of this social upheaval and habitat destruction in a sane, non-destructive manner. I think that history, climate projections, and known human behaviour are all pushing the odds toward civilization collapse, and possibly another extinction in the genus Homo.

benj111 4y ago

When the goal was set it was achievable and we didn't do anything, why would it be different the second time around?

GekkePrutser 4y ago
Because we're really feeling the consequences now. All over the world.
- benj111 4y ago
  Well surely that's more motivation to meet the current target. Except even though we're all feeling the consequences we're still not really doing enough.