5 ms·

And I guess that means we won't get any more cable interface innovation for a while. Are we really that certain that micro USB -- I mean, USB-C -- is the format

And I guess that means we won't get any more cable interface innovation for a while. Are we really that certain that micro USB -- I mean, USB-C -- is the format to standardize on for the foreseeable future?

fazfq 4y ago
It doesn't matter what you think, the busybodies have made their choice so you can't make yours.
- nilespotter 4y ago
  Couldn't agree more. I don't understand why the HN crowd is so supportive of government telling people what to do, as evidenced by your rapid downvotes. I don't use an iPhone but I'm disappointed Apple caved.
  - enriquec 4y ago
    hacker news was overrun with non-technical people (with no real engineering or economics knowledge) long ago (like 6+ years). hardly any interesting discussion or deep understanding here anymore
  - frosted-flakes 4y ago
    It's not much different than governments regulating electrical power oulets/plugs. And no one thinks that that should be a free-for-all. Of course, there's still fragmentation among different continents/countries, but that was inevitable given the time periods these things were standardised. It's unfortunate that the world didn't decide on one standard, but at least almost all countries are internally consistent. There's no need to make the same mistake with USB.
    - hooverd 4y ago
      We should allow electrical and networking companies to innovate again. If Cisco wants to use something else instead of RJ45, they should be allowed to be.
      - Hamuko 4y ago
        I'm calling the cops on the Cisco MS450-12 right now.
        hooverd 4y ago
        Now I want a laptop with an SFP jack. Because why not.
      - muhehe 4y ago
        Who is prohibiting them from replacing RJ45?
kalleboo 4y ago
And all because Apple refused to play ball and just adopt USB-C like the rest of the industry. They're too used to US regulators that just roll over and don't follow through with their threats. For over a decade the EU has tried to get the industry to adopt a common standard without mandating it in law (we got microUSB on all phones instead of the previous proprietary ports thanks to the 2009 voluntary EU memorandum of understanding that had no problem with manufacturers upgrading to USB-C when it came out), and only Apple kept on refusing to do it.
- Game_Ender 4y ago
  USB-C exists because apple didn't "play ball" and use USB-mini or USB-micro like the rest of the industry and developed the lightning port [0] (see comments on this article). 0 - https://9to5mac.com/2015/03/14/apple-invent-usb-type-c/ https://9to5mac.com/2015/03/14/apple-invent-usb-type-c/
- renewiltord 4y ago
  Thank fuck they didn't because otherwise we would have ended up with the shitty mini USB crap. Apple has been the one company making progress on stuff: - no floppy - no optical - no shitty as mini or micro USB - no Flash Each time people whined about the fact that they "didn't use what everyone else does" and each time they were right.
  - jyrkesh 4y ago
    I'd say the one exception here is removing the headphone jack. I'm still really salty about that one. Even as a Pixel owner...the downstream ecosystem effect was everyone removing the headphone jack. And most Android phones didn't even get the waterproofing benefits! Bluetooth just STILL isn't there from a reliability perspective. Even with the latest Gen 2 AirPods, I talk to friends who continue have sporadic stuff where a single bud cuts out, or you have to reconnect to get the mic working, or etc. etc... Just give me a damn analog plug and let me hear/talk!
    - mrtranscendence 4y ago
jan_Inkepa 4y ago
Companies are trying to move to wireless charging anyway, so innovation would have been expected to be in that direction, and that will not be hampered.
- _chu1 4y ago
  Literally who uses wireless charging
  - Hamuko 4y ago
    Literally me.
Hamuko 4y ago
>And I guess that means we won't get any more cable interface innovation for a while. What cable innovations has the iPhone had thus far?
- burke 4y ago
  Lightning? Certainly at the time it was released it was a far superior connector than the alternatives. USB-C wins out IMO but only because of its now-ubiquity. Lightning is still, I think, a slightly better connector for a handheld.
  - Hamuko 4y ago
    Lightning was 10 years ago, and that was to replace the then nine-year-old 30-pin Dock connector. And I think the only feature that the Lightning connector had over the 30-pin was that it was reversible. Unless we count the size as a feature? Actually, the 30-pin connector had a bunch of functionality that was lost when Apple moved to Lightning. The 30-pin connector could for example carry analog audio. The Lightning to 3.5 mm headphone jack adapter needs to have a tiny DAC inside it to actually convert to analog signal. So if the suggested premise is that we are not going to be seeing "any more cable interface innovation", I'd argue that we weren't seeing much from Apple anyways.
  - RealStickman_ 4y ago
    Lightning was never available for other manufacturers. Maybe it could have won if Apple hadn't kept it to themselves.
- fazfq 4y ago
  The lightning connector while everybody else was stuck with miniusb and microusb?
dagmx 4y ago
The EU regulations have regular reevaluations of the format built in. So if something better comes along, it can replace USB-C at that point.
- enriquec 4y ago
  whos going to invest knowing their investment could be completely wasted on the whims of beaurocrats and on their schedule?
  - Hamuko 4y ago
    Who's going to invest in anything when the government can come, outlaw your product and throw you in jail?
- scarface74 4y ago
  Wow, you can’t imagine how excited I am that EU regulators get to decide the direction of technology.
- encoderer 4y ago
  If you think this won’t slow innovation in the connector space you’ve lost your mind. It might be worth the lost innovation, but to pretend that this won’t impact new development is just fantasyland.
bryanlarsen 4y ago
The standard complaint against USB is that it is innovating so quickly that the names are confusing, not that it isn't innovating.
mig39 4y ago
Sadly, the first time this was considered by the EU was when all the phones were using Mini USB connectors. The same arguments back then. Of course, Mini USB is largely deprecated and not used these days. If they had forced Apple into Mini USB, would we have gotten adoption of Micro USB, and eventually Type-C connectors?
RockRobotRock 4y ago
Yes

fazfq 4y ago

It doesn't matter what you think, the busybodies have made their choice so you can't make yours.

nilespotter 4y ago
Couldn't agree more. I don't understand why the HN crowd is so supportive of government telling people what to do, as evidenced by your rapid downvotes. I don't use an iPhone but I'm disappointed Apple caved.
- enriquec 4y ago
  hacker news was overrun with non-technical people (with no real engineering or economics knowledge) long ago (like 6+ years). hardly any interesting discussion or deep understanding here anymore
- frosted-flakes 4y ago
  It's not much different than governments regulating electrical power oulets/plugs. And no one thinks that that should be a free-for-all. Of course, there's still fragmentation among different continents/countries, but that was inevitable given the time periods these things were standardised. It's unfortunate that the world didn't decide on one standard, but at least almost all countries are internally consistent. There's no need to make the same mistake with USB.
  - hooverd 4y ago
    We should allow electrical and networking companies to innovate again. If Cisco wants to use something else instead of RJ45, they should be allowed to be.
    - Hamuko 4y ago
      I'm calling the cops on the Cisco MS450-12 right now.
      - hooverd 4y ago
        Now I want a laptop with an SFP jack. Because why not.
    - muhehe 4y ago
      Who is prohibiting them from replacing RJ45?

kalleboo 4y ago

And all because Apple refused to play ball and just adopt USB-C like the rest of the industry. They're too used to US regulators that just roll over and don't follow through with their threats. For over a decade the EU has tried to get the industry to adopt a common standard without mandating it in law (we got microUSB on all phones instead of the previous proprietary ports thanks to the 2009 voluntary EU memorandum of understanding that had no problem with manufacturers upgrading to USB-C when it came out), and only Apple kept on refusing to do it.

Game_Ender 4y ago
USB-C exists because apple didn't "play ball" and use USB-mini or USB-micro like the rest of the industry and developed the lightning port [0] (see comments on this article). 0 - https://9to5mac.com/2015/03/14/apple-invent-usb-type-c/ https://9to5mac.com/2015/03/14/apple-invent-usb-type-c/
renewiltord 4y ago
Thank fuck they didn't because otherwise we would have ended up with the shitty mini USB crap. Apple has been the one company making progress on stuff: - no floppy - no optical - no shitty as mini or micro USB - no Flash Each time people whined about the fact that they "didn't use what everyone else does" and each time they were right.
- jyrkesh 4y ago
  I'd say the one exception here is removing the headphone jack. I'm still really salty about that one. Even as a Pixel owner...the downstream ecosystem effect was everyone removing the headphone jack. And most Android phones didn't even get the waterproofing benefits! Bluetooth just STILL isn't there from a reliability perspective. Even with the latest Gen 2 AirPods, I talk to friends who continue have sporadic stuff where a single bud cuts out, or you have to reconnect to get the mic working, or etc. etc... Just give me a damn analog plug and let me hear/talk!
  - mrtranscendence 4y ago

jan_Inkepa 4y ago

Companies are trying to move to wireless charging anyway, so innovation would have been expected to be in that direction, and that will not be hampered.

_chu1 4y ago
Literally who uses wireless charging
- Hamuko 4y ago
  Literally me.

Hamuko 4y ago

>And I guess that means we won't get any more cable interface innovation for a while. What cable innovations has the iPhone had thus far?

burke 4y ago
Lightning? Certainly at the time it was released it was a far superior connector than the alternatives. USB-C wins out IMO but only because of its now-ubiquity. Lightning is still, I think, a slightly better connector for a handheld.
- Hamuko 4y ago
  Lightning was 10 years ago, and that was to replace the then nine-year-old 30-pin Dock connector. And I think the only feature that the Lightning connector had over the 30-pin was that it was reversible. Unless we count the size as a feature? Actually, the 30-pin connector had a bunch of functionality that was lost when Apple moved to Lightning. The 30-pin connector could for example carry analog audio. The Lightning to 3.5 mm headphone jack adapter needs to have a tiny DAC inside it to actually convert to analog signal. So if the suggested premise is that we are not going to be seeing "any more cable interface innovation", I'd argue that we weren't seeing much from Apple anyways.
- RealStickman_ 4y ago
  Lightning was never available for other manufacturers. Maybe it could have won if Apple hadn't kept it to themselves.
fazfq 4y ago
The lightning connector while everybody else was stuck with miniusb and microusb?

dagmx 4y ago

The EU regulations have regular reevaluations of the format built in. So if something better comes along, it can replace USB-C at that point.

enriquec 4y ago
whos going to invest knowing their investment could be completely wasted on the whims of beaurocrats and on their schedule?
- Hamuko 4y ago
  Who's going to invest in anything when the government can come, outlaw your product and throw you in jail?
scarface74 4y ago
Wow, you can’t imagine how excited I am that EU regulators get to decide the direction of technology.
encoderer 4y ago
If you think this won’t slow innovation in the connector space you’ve lost your mind. It might be worth the lost innovation, but to pretend that this won’t impact new development is just fantasyland.

bryanlarsen 4y ago

The standard complaint against USB is that it is innovating so quickly that the names are confusing, not that it isn't innovating.

mig39 4y ago

Sadly, the first time this was considered by the EU was when all the phones were using Mini USB connectors. The same arguments back then. Of course, Mini USB is largely deprecated and not used these days. If they had forced Apple into Mini USB, would we have gotten adoption of Micro USB, and eventually Type-C connectors?

RockRobotRock 4y ago

Yes