3 ms·

No, batteries are already replacing peaker plants at TODAY'S costs https://www.pv-magazine.com/2021/04/12/battery-storage-systems-30-cheaper-than-rival-gas-pea

No, batteries are already replacing peaker plants at TODAY'S costs https://www.pv-magazine.com/2021/04/12/battery-storage-systems-30-cheaper-than-rival-gas-peaker-plants-for-firming-renewables/&ved=2ahUKEwiFiMOS2oD7AhXaVTABHeugD-AQFnoECAwQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0HCtiB_Dw7RQHm_S_WvKtm https://www.pv-magazine.com/2021/04/12/battery-storage-syste...

pclmulqdq 4y ago
Replacing the most expensive form of power plant (and mind you, only the most expensive ones out of that class) at a quantity much lower than is needed to actually replace them, with serious supply constraints. Batteries today are replacing peaker plants that run on things like refined gasoline, which are extremely expensive to run. Battery + renewable is still not anywhere near cost competitive with base load plants, which is the honest comparison to make.
- gitfan86 4y ago
  That is incorrect, "The International Energy Agency recently predicted that solar power would become “the cheapest source of electricity in history,” and a report by Carbon Tracker found that 90 percent of the global population lives in places where new renewable power would be cheaper than new dirty power. " https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/10/26/magazine/climate-change-warming-world.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/10/26/magazine/clim...
  - pclmulqdq 4y ago
    Power demand is inelastic. What these agencies say about power prices is true if you don't factor in the fact that wind isn't always blowing and the sun isn't always shining. When wind and solar can produce power, they can produce it very cheaply. 1 watt of solar power is very expensive to produce from starlight, and so is 1 watt of wind power on a calm day. The price of the batteries and/or overbuilt capacity has to be factored in to the price of renewable energy if you want to run the grid 100% on renewables. If you don't want batteries, and instead want a global grid, the cost of transport has to be factored in. Either proposition makes renewable energy extremely expensive for providing base load power, not to mention currently impossible. Currently, we need something like 10-100 TWh of batteries for grid stabilization in just the US. Taking a high estimate of 1 TWh this year, that would be 10-100 years of the entire current global lithium ion battery production (not including the fact that those batteries are going to depreciate over 5-10 years). Pumped storage and other (weirder) energy storage methods also can't scale up enough to get anywhere near this demand.

pclmulqdq 4y ago

Replacing the most expensive form of power plant (and mind you, only the most expensive ones out of that class) at a quantity much lower than is needed to actually replace them, with serious supply constraints. Batteries today are replacing peaker plants that run on things like refined gasoline, which are extremely expensive to run. Battery + renewable is still not anywhere near cost competitive with base load plants, which is the honest comparison to make.

gitfan86 4y ago
That is incorrect, "The International Energy Agency recently predicted that solar power would become “the cheapest source of electricity in history,” and a report by Carbon Tracker found that 90 percent of the global population lives in places where new renewable power would be cheaper than new dirty power. " https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/10/26/magazine/climate-change-warming-world.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/10/26/magazine/clim...
- pclmulqdq 4y ago
  Power demand is inelastic. What these agencies say about power prices is true if you don't factor in the fact that wind isn't always blowing and the sun isn't always shining. When wind and solar can produce power, they can produce it very cheaply. 1 watt of solar power is very expensive to produce from starlight, and so is 1 watt of wind power on a calm day. The price of the batteries and/or overbuilt capacity has to be factored in to the price of renewable energy if you want to run the grid 100% on renewables. If you don't want batteries, and instead want a global grid, the cost of transport has to be factored in. Either proposition makes renewable energy extremely expensive for providing base load power, not to mention currently impossible. Currently, we need something like 10-100 TWh of batteries for grid stabilization in just the US. Taking a high estimate of 1 TWh this year, that would be 10-100 years of the entire current global lithium ion battery production (not including the fact that those batteries are going to depreciate over 5-10 years). Pumped storage and other (weirder) energy storage methods also can't scale up enough to get anywhere near this demand.