3 ms·

> The rationale for this is that only by raising the living standard of the third world can the world’s population be stabilized without a major die-off I don'

> The rationale for this is that only by raising the living standard of the third world can the world’s population be stabilized without a major die-off I don't see how pumping billions of tonnes of heavy metal tainted sulfuric acid into the ground water of Namibia and Niger for Uranium royalties that are lower than the cost of cleanup and then putting them into debt they can't service for power stations that can only be fueled by their colonizers' nuclear weapons programs is related to increasing their standard of living. Especially when the fuel source can only service the US primary energy for under a decade.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
You don’t see how electrification increases living standards [1]? [1] https://pubs.aeaweb.org/doi/pdf/10.1257/jep.34.1.122 https://pubs.aeaweb.org/doi/pdf/10.1257/jep.34.1.122
- Schroedingersat 4y ago
  Yes, it increases living standards immensely. Fission reactors do not help towards this goal.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > Fission reactors do not help towards this goal Of course they do. Reactors produce electricity. You don’t like how they do it. But that they electrify borders on tautology.
    - Schroedingersat 4y ago
      No, they hinder the goal because they will never provide more than a tiny fraction of the needed energy and building one would tie up immense amounts of resources that could electrify many more households and cause permanent outflows for interest on debt that can never be paid off and fuel that they are not allowed to make. I have an idea for a program where I pour lead onto your food and loan you $100k but you can only spend it on preordering a sports car I sell that doesn't work on unpaved roads for $150k which can only be charged at chargers I own and if you do anything I don't like ever I'll just ban you from using my cars altogether. It won't explode iff you keep up with perfect maintenance and I'll be removing all of the chargers in 2060 (or 2050 if I get lots of orders). It may arrive any time between 2028 and 2040 or maybe I'll just cancel the order (but you still have to pay back the loan). The alternative is you buy a LEV that charges itself if you use it less than 30 miles a day, can accept any charger and costs $30k but you have to find a loan yourself. It might fail to charge up to 20% of the time with a few days' notice if you don't buy the $50k deluxe package. They're both transport, right? Transport is good.
pclmulqdq 4y ago
Now do the pollution associated with lithium mining.
- Schroedingersat 4y ago
  Then ban polluting lithium mining methods along with ISL uranium mining anywhere near an aquifer, open tailings ponds, anything to do with coal, and anything else with uncaptured externalities. Please and thankyou. Storage and renewables can be achieved in a much more scalable, cheap, and less resource intensive way than nuclear without anything more scarce than chlorine (although rarer elements in manageable quantities make them more robust and even cheaper for now). https://cleantechnica.com/2021/10/07/first-ess-iron-flow-battery-to-go-online-this-month/ https://cleantechnica.com/2021/10/07/first-ess-iron-flow-bat... https://talkmarkets.com/content/global-markets/catl-to-promote-industrialization-of-sodium-ion-battery-by-2023?post=359736 https://talkmarkets.com/content/global-markets/catl-to-promo... https://formenergy.com/form-energy-announces-450m-series-e-financing/ https://formenergy.com/form-energy-announces-450m-series-e-f... https://news.mit.edu/2022/aluminum-sulfur-battery-0824 https://news.mit.edu/2022/aluminum-sulfur-battery-0824 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Potential-150-GWh-Greenfield-off-river-pumped-hydro-energy-storage-sites-in-Indonesia_fig2_360496612 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Potential-150-GWh-Greenf...

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

You don’t see how electrification increases living standards [1]? [1] https://pubs.aeaweb.org/doi/pdf/10.1257/jep.34.1.122 https://pubs.aeaweb.org/doi/pdf/10.1257/jep.34.1.122

Schroedingersat 4y ago
Yes, it increases living standards immensely. Fission reactors do not help towards this goal.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > Fission reactors do not help towards this goal Of course they do. Reactors produce electricity. You don’t like how they do it. But that they electrify borders on tautology.
  - Schroedingersat 4y ago
    No, they hinder the goal because they will never provide more than a tiny fraction of the needed energy and building one would tie up immense amounts of resources that could electrify many more households and cause permanent outflows for interest on debt that can never be paid off and fuel that they are not allowed to make. I have an idea for a program where I pour lead onto your food and loan you $100k but you can only spend it on preordering a sports car I sell that doesn't work on unpaved roads for $150k which can only be charged at chargers I own and if you do anything I don't like ever I'll just ban you from using my cars altogether. It won't explode iff you keep up with perfect maintenance and I'll be removing all of the chargers in 2060 (or 2050 if I get lots of orders). It may arrive any time between 2028 and 2040 or maybe I'll just cancel the order (but you still have to pay back the loan). The alternative is you buy a LEV that charges itself if you use it less than 30 miles a day, can accept any charger and costs $30k but you have to find a loan yourself. It might fail to charge up to 20% of the time with a few days' notice if you don't buy the $50k deluxe package. They're both transport, right? Transport is good.

pclmulqdq 4y ago

Now do the pollution associated with lithium mining.

Schroedingersat 4y ago
Then ban polluting lithium mining methods along with ISL uranium mining anywhere near an aquifer, open tailings ponds, anything to do with coal, and anything else with uncaptured externalities. Please and thankyou. Storage and renewables can be achieved in a much more scalable, cheap, and less resource intensive way than nuclear without anything more scarce than chlorine (although rarer elements in manageable quantities make them more robust and even cheaper for now). https://cleantechnica.com/2021/10/07/first-ess-iron-flow-battery-to-go-online-this-month/ https://cleantechnica.com/2021/10/07/first-ess-iron-flow-bat... https://talkmarkets.com/content/global-markets/catl-to-promote-industrialization-of-sodium-ion-battery-by-2023?post=359736 https://talkmarkets.com/content/global-markets/catl-to-promo... https://formenergy.com/form-energy-announces-450m-series-e-financing/ https://formenergy.com/form-energy-announces-450m-series-e-f... https://news.mit.edu/2022/aluminum-sulfur-battery-0824 https://news.mit.edu/2022/aluminum-sulfur-battery-0824 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Potential-150-GWh-Greenfield-off-river-pumped-hydro-energy-storage-sites-in-Indonesia_fig2_360496612 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Potential-150-GWh-Greenf...