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I can email grandma and get directions to the park on my smartphone. The value proposition is clear. I can ??? by strapping an enormous headset to my face, fl

I can email grandma and get directions to the park on my smartphone. The value proposition is clear. I can ??? by strapping an enormous headset to my face, flailing my arms around, and getting sick to my stomach and lightening my wallet by $500-$1500 with VR headsets. What do I gain by doing this?

blairbeckwith 4y ago
You are arguing against the opinion "it sucks right now, but it can get better" with "it sucks right now". Is your position that things that suck can not get better?
- qbasic_forever 4y ago
  I've heard that exact same defense for 10 years. When? When is this magic moment where it stops sucking? We've been told oh just wait for better hand tracking... oh wait for better screens... oh wait for portable/wireless headsets... oh wait... Shit or get off the pot VR. You've had 10 years.
  - blairbeckwith 4y ago
    Tons of things have taken more than 10 years to stop sucking. Digital cameras, MP3 players, "smart" phones, arguably laptops... I am not a VR believer by any stretch, but this is such myopic thinking.
    - creshal 4y ago
      VR has been around for fifty years, that's a pretty long time to not produce any convincing results. And all those inventions piggy backed off a very rapid pace of hardware getting faster, smaller, more power efficient and cheaper at the same time. Moore's law meanwhile is dead, the rate at which CPUs/GPUs get faster is slowing down considerably, and VR needs a lot faster and cheaper and more power efficient hardware just to become affordable at reasonable quality. That's not a good starting point, especially when you're a publicly traded company and your future depends on reaching that inflexion point soon™. And then you still run into practicality problems: • User input is still fairly clunky. Touchscreens just removed most of the friction of computer input devices, VR puts it back in. That won't make it particularly popular. Granted, future advances in hand/finger tracking might solve this, but this adds another set of sensors and hardware to make sense of them, when VR headsets are already struggling to reduce the bill of materials to become affordable. • VR needs lots and lots of space. Digital cameras, MP3 players, smartphones, laptops, … for the most part reduced the amount of space a family needs to do things, compared to what came before, which made them a no-brainer for all demographics. No amount of technology improvement can really reduce VR's space demand without compromising on user experience. Not a problem for US tech bros, but ask an European or Asian family what they feel about doubling their rent so one family member gets enough space to use VR. Not gonna happen.
  - scyzoryk_xyz 4y ago
    „Shit or get off the pot VR. You've had 10 years.” What a strange anthropomorphization of technology/product. Is this somehow hurting you personally? Is there some other technology being developed by someone that is somehow not “getting it’s turn”?
  - silverlake 4y ago
    All the tech you like took much, much longer to develop than 10 years. The first computer was 1945. The first “mobile” phone was 1946. The first video phone was 1956. The first “internet” was 1969. Electric cars were commercially available in 1900. These were all developed by giant companies that no longer exist.
- cmsj 4y ago
  No, not really, because while nobody enjoyed the pre-iPhone smartphone experience, it was obviously useful and there was adoption - think Blackberry. VR though... it's really hard to imagine use cases that will cause a billion people to buy a headset and wear it for a number of hours a day.
falcolas 4y ago
The same thing you gain by using headphones over speakers. And you can get into VR for much less than $500. Have been able to for years now.
- mywittyname 4y ago
  Most people prefer speakers...
  - falcolas 4y ago
    And yet people use headphones everywhere. Especially in apartments to avoid annoying neighbors. Speakers are, with few exceptions, inconsiderate of folks around you.
- juve1996 4y ago
  > And you can get into VR for much less than $500. Have been able to for years now. Which isn't good then, it's so cheap yet barely adopted?
  - falcolas 4y ago
    10m devices sold per year (and growing) is not "barely".
10000truths 4y ago
Most importantly, using a smartphone is a very low-friction experience. It takes two seconds to pull it out of your pocket and unlock it, and two seconds to put it back in your pocket. Same with a desktop - to use it, I sit down at my chair, maybe press the monitor power button, and I’m good to go. When I’m done, I get up from the chair. VR headsets are far more bulky and intrusive. They don’t allow for easy context switching between cyberspace and the real world, and they’re not portable enough to be used on the go like a smartphone.
- scyzoryk_xyz 4y ago
  Yep. They weren’t a low-friction experience before though. Have you compared headsets lately? Because just recently I have, and this shit is changing. A 2017 Vive is very different from a 2021 Oculus from that friction POV. With nm chip architectures and battery tech improving, it really doesn’t take that much imagination to predict where they will be in 2025 or 2030. Personally, I think one of the killer features for this category will be matured inside-out hand-tracking. Not having to do anything but put the headset on your head makes a huge difference.
politician 4y ago
Add that you've got a lithium battery pack pressed against the back of your head -- those things don't have a perfect safety record. If it blows up in your laptop, you probably won't be permanently disabled. Or that excessive use of the device will probably have long-term consequences for your eyes. As a long-time user of smartphones, I am beginning to wonder if staring at a small screen has accelerated aging in my eyes. I can only imagine the damage from poorly calibrated VR glasses.
scyzoryk_xyz 4y ago
Did you try getting directions on a smartphone in 2004? How about showing your grandma how to send an e-mail in 2004 on a smartphone? You gain nothing - not right now, not today. Nobody is holding a gun to your head. Nobody is saying this stuff works today.
xvector 4y ago
Use your imagination. You can: - Attend meetings and feel an infinitely greater sense of presence than Zoom - Whiteboard with your coworkers - Play games more immersive than any you’ve ever played before - Extend a tiny laptop into a massive multi-monitor setup - on the go - Spin up a massive movie theater for yourself on a plane flight - …

blairbeckwith 4y ago

You are arguing against the opinion "it sucks right now, but it can get better" with "it sucks right now". Is your position that things that suck can not get better?

qbasic_forever 4y ago
I've heard that exact same defense for 10 years. When? When is this magic moment where it stops sucking? We've been told oh just wait for better hand tracking... oh wait for better screens... oh wait for portable/wireless headsets... oh wait... Shit or get off the pot VR. You've had 10 years.
- blairbeckwith 4y ago
  Tons of things have taken more than 10 years to stop sucking. Digital cameras, MP3 players, "smart" phones, arguably laptops... I am not a VR believer by any stretch, but this is such myopic thinking.
  - creshal 4y ago
    VR has been around for fifty years, that's a pretty long time to not produce any convincing results. And all those inventions piggy backed off a very rapid pace of hardware getting faster, smaller, more power efficient and cheaper at the same time. Moore's law meanwhile is dead, the rate at which CPUs/GPUs get faster is slowing down considerably, and VR needs a lot faster and cheaper and more power efficient hardware just to become affordable at reasonable quality. That's not a good starting point, especially when you're a publicly traded company and your future depends on reaching that inflexion point soon™. And then you still run into practicality problems: • User input is still fairly clunky. Touchscreens just removed most of the friction of computer input devices, VR puts it back in. That won't make it particularly popular. Granted, future advances in hand/finger tracking might solve this, but this adds another set of sensors and hardware to make sense of them, when VR headsets are already struggling to reduce the bill of materials to become affordable. • VR needs lots and lots of space. Digital cameras, MP3 players, smartphones, laptops, … for the most part reduced the amount of space a family needs to do things, compared to what came before, which made them a no-brainer for all demographics. No amount of technology improvement can really reduce VR's space demand without compromising on user experience. Not a problem for US tech bros, but ask an European or Asian family what they feel about doubling their rent so one family member gets enough space to use VR. Not gonna happen.
- scyzoryk_xyz 4y ago
  „Shit or get off the pot VR. You've had 10 years.” What a strange anthropomorphization of technology/product. Is this somehow hurting you personally? Is there some other technology being developed by someone that is somehow not “getting it’s turn”?
- silverlake 4y ago
  All the tech you like took much, much longer to develop than 10 years. The first computer was 1945. The first “mobile” phone was 1946. The first video phone was 1956. The first “internet” was 1969. Electric cars were commercially available in 1900. These were all developed by giant companies that no longer exist.
cmsj 4y ago
No, not really, because while nobody enjoyed the pre-iPhone smartphone experience, it was obviously useful and there was adoption - think Blackberry. VR though... it's really hard to imagine use cases that will cause a billion people to buy a headset and wear it for a number of hours a day.

falcolas 4y ago

The same thing you gain by using headphones over speakers. And you can get into VR for much less than $500. Have been able to for years now.

mywittyname 4y ago
Most people prefer speakers...
- falcolas 4y ago
  And yet people use headphones everywhere. Especially in apartments to avoid annoying neighbors. Speakers are, with few exceptions, inconsiderate of folks around you.
juve1996 4y ago
> And you can get into VR for much less than $500. Have been able to for years now. Which isn't good then, it's so cheap yet barely adopted?
- falcolas 4y ago
  10m devices sold per year (and growing) is not "barely".

10000truths 4y ago

Most importantly, using a smartphone is a very low-friction experience. It takes two seconds to pull it out of your pocket and unlock it, and two seconds to put it back in your pocket. Same with a desktop - to use it, I sit down at my chair, maybe press the monitor power button, and I’m good to go. When I’m done, I get up from the chair. VR headsets are far more bulky and intrusive. They don’t allow for easy context switching between cyberspace and the real world, and they’re not portable enough to be used on the go like a smartphone.

scyzoryk_xyz 4y ago
Yep. They weren’t a low-friction experience before though. Have you compared headsets lately? Because just recently I have, and this shit is changing. A 2017 Vive is very different from a 2021 Oculus from that friction POV. With nm chip architectures and battery tech improving, it really doesn’t take that much imagination to predict where they will be in 2025 or 2030. Personally, I think one of the killer features for this category will be matured inside-out hand-tracking. Not having to do anything but put the headset on your head makes a huge difference.

politician 4y ago

Add that you've got a lithium battery pack pressed against the back of your head -- those things don't have a perfect safety record. If it blows up in your laptop, you probably won't be permanently disabled. Or that excessive use of the device will probably have long-term consequences for your eyes. As a long-time user of smartphones, I am beginning to wonder if staring at a small screen has accelerated aging in my eyes. I can only imagine the damage from poorly calibrated VR glasses.

scyzoryk_xyz 4y ago

Did you try getting directions on a smartphone in 2004? How about showing your grandma how to send an e-mail in 2004 on a smartphone? You gain nothing - not right now, not today. Nobody is holding a gun to your head. Nobody is saying this stuff works today.

xvector 4y ago

Use your imagination. You can: - Attend meetings and feel an infinitely greater sense of presence than Zoom - Whiteboard with your coworkers - Play games more immersive than any you’ve ever played before - Extend a tiny laptop into a massive multi-monitor setup - on the go - Spin up a massive movie theater for yourself on a plane flight - …