4 ms·

The police are only part of the problem, the criminals still needs to be charged and convicted. There was a reason SF recalled their DA. Also, many of these peo

The police are only part of the problem, the criminals still needs to be charged and convicted. There was a reason SF recalled their DA. Also, many of these people are mentally ill, and the arrest can turn physical. In the current environment, police have very little room to make mistakes and even if they do everything according to their training, public opinion can really go against them (see Nicholas Reardon). Nobody wants to be public enemy #1 for doing their job. Imagine reading an honest job description for being a police officer: * Good benefits, poor hours * Willing to risk life to save others even if they hate you. * Must make split second life and death decisions and if you are wrong, you can go to jail for lifetime. * You will be recorded and every important decision will be second guessed by people who have never done the job * Even if you follow training perfectly, public opinion might go against you which could lead to criminal charges. Can you image taking a sys admin job like that? Hackernews would laugh non-stop at that posting. But we expect less educated people to do that job for less money. Good luck with that plan. Just like we have done to teachers in our schools, I think we have made the job almost impossible. In a more gentle society, I can see the plan working, but in our current cities, I think our expectations are complete fiction.

hotpotamus 4y ago
You've more elaborately written my exact thoughts on the subject. Anytime I hear on HN about how we need more people to do a job, I think, "would you want to do that job?", or maybe more relevant, "would you want your kids to do that job?". I suppose it could be taken as a snarky, gotcha question, but it's a question I ask myself often. Someone's kids have to do these jobs.
Eric_WVGG 4y ago
let me give that list another pass… * Unbelievable benefits, poor hours * Carte blanc opportunity to deliver violence on anyone you hate * Must make split second life and death decisions, and you've qualified immunity to protect you even from deliberate wrongdoings * You will be joining a team whose reputation is so miserable that they're asked to record everything; those cameras can be turned off or trashed. * If you fail to follow your training perfectly, you're probably going to be able to keep your job through to retirement anyway. Can you imagine what kinds of people take jobs like this? One thing that you and I agree on — in a more gentle society, police departments would work. We've spent the past forty years dismantling society, tearing the copper wiring out of every support structure for the lower class, and driven people deeper into poverty. If we didn't create a society that required stormtroopers to keep order, we wouldn't have this kind of crime or need stormtroopers.
- taylodl 4y ago
  Your last point is very illuminating - If we didn't create a society that required stormtroopers to keep order, we wouldn't have this kind of crime or need stormtroopers.
- mc32 4y ago
  I feel that people in the lower stratum haven't so much as gotten poorer but rather the other strata have gotten relatively much richer. However, there are areas in the lower stratum where the rug has been pull out from them in the form of jobs exports (sending MFG overseas) as well as depressing wages via low-skill immigration --these immigrants put price pressure on the native population due to the expanded worker pool.
- pmoriarty 4y ago
  "Carte blanc opportunity to deliver violence on anyone you hate" "Must make split second life and death decisions, and you've qualified immunity to protect you even from deliberate wrongdoings" There was a good Radiolab episode on training that police are given on how to convince juries that they were afraid for their life when they fired their weapons, because the law gives them immunity in that case.
mint2 4y ago
> criminals still needs to be charged and convicted. There was a reason SF recalled their DA. It’s impossible to charge someone who wasn’t arrested or, in the rare occasion they are arrested, with shoddy evidence work. The police even had their own catalytic converters stolen
jjav 4y ago
> Must make split second life and death decisions and if you are wrong, you can go to jail for lifetime. This is not even remotely a good-faith description of the reality. The police brutality cases where there are charges filed are always very obvious deliberate murder by the police. And very few of those go anywhere, only the most blatant receive any kind of sentencing. I challenge you to present cases where a police officer making an honest split-second mistake has been sentenced to jail.
- HonestOp001 4y ago
  The officer who was on desk duty and was put in the field. The stressed officer then pulled out her gun instead of her taser.

hotpotamus 4y ago

You've more elaborately written my exact thoughts on the subject. Anytime I hear on HN about how we need more people to do a job, I think, "would you want to do that job?", or maybe more relevant, "would you want your kids to do that job?". I suppose it could be taken as a snarky, gotcha question, but it's a question I ask myself often. Someone's kids have to do these jobs.

Eric_WVGG 4y ago

let me give that list another pass… * Unbelievable benefits, poor hours * Carte blanc opportunity to deliver violence on anyone you hate * Must make split second life and death decisions, and you've qualified immunity to protect you even from deliberate wrongdoings * You will be joining a team whose reputation is so miserable that they're asked to record everything; those cameras can be turned off or trashed. * If you fail to follow your training perfectly, you're probably going to be able to keep your job through to retirement anyway. Can you imagine what kinds of people take jobs like this? One thing that you and I agree on — in a more gentle society, police departments would work. We've spent the past forty years dismantling society, tearing the copper wiring out of every support structure for the lower class, and driven people deeper into poverty. If we didn't create a society that required stormtroopers to keep order, we wouldn't have this kind of crime or need stormtroopers.

taylodl 4y ago
Your last point is very illuminating - If we didn't create a society that required stormtroopers to keep order, we wouldn't have this kind of crime or need stormtroopers.
mc32 4y ago
I feel that people in the lower stratum haven't so much as gotten poorer but rather the other strata have gotten relatively much richer. However, there are areas in the lower stratum where the rug has been pull out from them in the form of jobs exports (sending MFG overseas) as well as depressing wages via low-skill immigration --these immigrants put price pressure on the native population due to the expanded worker pool.
pmoriarty 4y ago
"Carte blanc opportunity to deliver violence on anyone you hate" "Must make split second life and death decisions, and you've qualified immunity to protect you even from deliberate wrongdoings" There was a good Radiolab episode on training that police are given on how to convince juries that they were afraid for their life when they fired their weapons, because the law gives them immunity in that case.

mint2 4y ago

> criminals still needs to be charged and convicted. There was a reason SF recalled their DA. It’s impossible to charge someone who wasn’t arrested or, in the rare occasion they are arrested, with shoddy evidence work. The police even had their own catalytic converters stolen

jjav 4y ago

> Must make split second life and death decisions and if you are wrong, you can go to jail for lifetime. This is not even remotely a good-faith description of the reality. The police brutality cases where there are charges filed are always very obvious deliberate murder by the police. And very few of those go anywhere, only the most blatant receive any kind of sentencing. I challenge you to present cases where a police officer making an honest split-second mistake has been sentenced to jail.

HonestOp001 4y ago
The officer who was on desk duty and was put in the field. The stressed officer then pulled out her gun instead of her taser.