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> they piss some people off by making radical choices No, people are not pissed off by the radicality of the choices. Stop taking people for uneducated jokers.

> they piss some people off by making radical choices No, people are not pissed off by the radicality of the choices. Stop taking people for uneducated jokers. People are pissed off because they understand the choices and do not agree with them or what they imply. Gamification, pushing apps and app stores, using the same disempowering concepts as mobile plateforms, changing design every so often for no good reason, focusing on simple design over features to the extreme which is again disempowering users, disregarding high performance requirements or assumptions such as recent hardware, stop pushing touchscreens. Nobody is arguing against having clean and accessible design for newcomers and nobody is saying that all of gnome is bad. It's just the same kind of critics that happen against wikimedia foundation or against mozilla: it is addressed to the management and the people that control the marketing and reads basically: cut the crap, stop doing futile stuff, your core things are good but they have been in better shape and would need more actual useful work, your goal is not only low entry barrier but also and very importantly high ceiling, if you target entry users your goal is to educate and teach. Also you are not a product (which needs to succeed and keep growing) but a tool, for users, by users, which solves a given goal and will be irrelevant when this goal becomes irrelevant, and that's ok.

soco 4y ago
The main reason I'm not using Linux at home is exactly updates - I don't want to be bothered for hours figuring out arcane error messages for each and every round of updates. When a distribution will be able to handle updates like the mobile platforms I will reconsider, and until then I'll handle this hassle only at work where I'm paid for it.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- simion314 4y ago
  I don't care if you run Linux or not, but for a home computer try a LTS distro, maybe Kubuntu , don't install third party PPAs and you should not get any problems updating. Using an LTS means that you are not getting the new shinny thing that you might see on the internet though. But if your current setup works painlessly for you then keep using that.
- smallerfish 4y ago
  > I don't want to be bothered for hours figuring out arcane error messages for each and every round of updates That's not really a thing if you're on a stable distribution. That's the entire point with going with distributions that do periodic releases rather than rolling releases - you benefit from testing others have done before you.
  - stjohnswarts 4y ago
    This is why my main machine is always on an Ubuntu LTS (although I use kde and not gnome); some more experimental server stuff I put on Arch and honestly even Arch really hasn't made dig around for hours in probably over a year. Ubuntu just keeps on ticking as long as you don't have hardware issues, and I build my machines around Linux, so that's not generally an issue.
asoneth 4y ago
I did not interpret "radical" in the prior comment to have either a positive or negative connotation. It merely implies that some of GNOME's decisions are polarizing and a drastic departure from norms, not that people who object to those decisions are "uneducated jokers". I think it's great that a few open source projects are willing to be more radical and experimental, even if that results in pissing off a large number of reasonable and well-educated people. The alternative seems to be a kind of milquetoast design-by-committee that satisfies the majority of people but also perpetually plays catch up to proprietary products by recreating their features without ever breaking new ground.
- lapinot 4y ago
  > The alternative seems to be a kind of milquetoast design-by-committee that satisfies the majority of people but also perpetually plays catch up to proprietary products by recreating their features without ever breaking new ground. How is this not a description of gnome? I specifically argue this is my previous comment. In contrast to say plasma/xfce/lxqt which are mostly an idealized windows xp in terms of concepts, ie a frozen target, not playing catch-up. > I did not interpret "radical" in the prior comment to have either a positive or negative connotation. Neither do i. :) > It merely implies that some of GNOME's decisions are polarizing and a drastic departure from norms, [..] > I think it's great that a few open source projects are willing to be more radical and experimental [..] This is not true, they are following quite closely the most recent trends in design. Specifically mobile platforms and quite apple-like: round squares, low-contrast thin-outlines, switch-style toggles, dock and launchpad-style app selector, simple window decoration, hamburgers, ... And this is a well-known choice, which has a history, motivations, requisites, etc. And surprise! the critics made at gnome are kind of the same (with a lower intensity) that are maid at apple or at mobile walled gardens: being dumbed-down, hiding OS concepts, discouraging any customization. I'm really not very angry at gnome. It's fine to do this design style. I don't use it but not because of the look, in fact i like some apps they do. They just need to understand better how and why the thing they are inspired by has been maid and pay attention the the stuff that they should not reproduce, either because it doesn't make any sense in their case or because it's bad for the users.

soco 4y ago

The main reason I'm not using Linux at home is exactly updates - I don't want to be bothered for hours figuring out arcane error messages for each and every round of updates. When a distribution will be able to handle updates like the mobile platforms I will reconsider, and until then I'll handle this hassle only at work where I'm paid for it.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
simion314 4y ago
I don't care if you run Linux or not, but for a home computer try a LTS distro, maybe Kubuntu , don't install third party PPAs and you should not get any problems updating. Using an LTS means that you are not getting the new shinny thing that you might see on the internet though. But if your current setup works painlessly for you then keep using that.
smallerfish 4y ago
> I don't want to be bothered for hours figuring out arcane error messages for each and every round of updates That's not really a thing if you're on a stable distribution. That's the entire point with going with distributions that do periodic releases rather than rolling releases - you benefit from testing others have done before you.
- stjohnswarts 4y ago
  This is why my main machine is always on an Ubuntu LTS (although I use kde and not gnome); some more experimental server stuff I put on Arch and honestly even Arch really hasn't made dig around for hours in probably over a year. Ubuntu just keeps on ticking as long as you don't have hardware issues, and I build my machines around Linux, so that's not generally an issue.

asoneth 4y ago

I did not interpret "radical" in the prior comment to have either a positive or negative connotation. It merely implies that some of GNOME's decisions are polarizing and a drastic departure from norms, not that people who object to those decisions are "uneducated jokers". I think it's great that a few open source projects are willing to be more radical and experimental, even if that results in pissing off a large number of reasonable and well-educated people. The alternative seems to be a kind of milquetoast design-by-committee that satisfies the majority of people but also perpetually plays catch up to proprietary products by recreating their features without ever breaking new ground.

lapinot 4y ago
> The alternative seems to be a kind of milquetoast design-by-committee that satisfies the majority of people but also perpetually plays catch up to proprietary products by recreating their features without ever breaking new ground. How is this not a description of gnome? I specifically argue this is my previous comment. In contrast to say plasma/xfce/lxqt which are mostly an idealized windows xp in terms of concepts, ie a frozen target, not playing catch-up. > I did not interpret "radical" in the prior comment to have either a positive or negative connotation. Neither do i. :) > It merely implies that some of GNOME's decisions are polarizing and a drastic departure from norms, [..] > I think it's great that a few open source projects are willing to be more radical and experimental [..] This is not true, they are following quite closely the most recent trends in design. Specifically mobile platforms and quite apple-like: round squares, low-contrast thin-outlines, switch-style toggles, dock and launchpad-style app selector, simple window decoration, hamburgers, ... And this is a well-known choice, which has a history, motivations, requisites, etc. And surprise! the critics made at gnome are kind of the same (with a lower intensity) that are maid at apple or at mobile walled gardens: being dumbed-down, hiding OS concepts, discouraging any customization. I'm really not very angry at gnome. It's fine to do this design style. I don't use it but not because of the look, in fact i like some apps they do. They just need to understand better how and why the thing they are inspired by has been maid and pay attention the the stuff that they should not reproduce, either because it doesn't make any sense in their case or because it's bad for the users.