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We should not idolize a past that did not exist. The politicians during the 1780s were not more virtuous, cooperative, or intelligent than the politicians of to

We should not idolize a past that did not exist. The politicians during the 1780s were not more virtuous, cooperative, or intelligent than the politicians of today. I tend to agree more with Thomas Jefferson: "On similar ground it may be proved that no society can make a perpetual constitution, or even a perpetual law. The earth belongs always to the living generation. They may manage it then, and what proceeds from it, as they please, during their usufruct. They are masters too of their own persons, and consequently may govern them as they please. But persons and property make the sum of the objects of government. The constitution and the laws of their predecessors extinguished then in their natural course with those who gave them being. This could preserve that being till it ceased to be itself, and no longer. Every constitution then, and every law, naturally expires at the end of 19 years. If it be enforced longer, it is an act of force, and not of right.—It may be said that the succeeding generation exercising in fact the power of repeal, this leaves them as free as if the constitution or law had been expressly limited to 19 years only. In the first place, this objection admits the right, in proposing an equivalent. But the power of repeal is not an equivalent. It might be indeed if every form of government were so perfectly contrived that the will of the majority could always be obtained fairly and without impediment. But this is true of no form. The people cannot assemble themselves. Their representation is unequal and vicious. Various checks are opposed to every legislative proposition. Factions get possession of the public councils. Bribery corrupts them. Personal interests lead them astray from the general interests of their constituents: and other impediments arise so as to prove to every practical man that a law of limited duration is much more manageable than one which needs a repeal." https://jeffersonpapers.princeton.edu/selected-documents/thomas-jefferson-james-madison https://jeffersonpapers.princeton.edu/selected-documents/tho...

ericmay 4y ago
But then you site one of those politicians who wrote actual thoughtful discourse. Is there a single politician in office or who has recently left office in America who has written anything approaching the thoughtfulness of even this short piece? I have to believe that even if it were true that many or most politicians in 1780 were similar to politicians today on levels that you mention that they still had a serious crop of worthy political intellectuals whereas today we have probably 0.
- JKCalhoun 4y ago
  In what forum today are politicians given an opportunity to speak/write intellectually? Sadly too, there has been for some time an under current of anti-intellectualism in politics. It is my understanding that Barack Obama, as an example, is highly educated, no doubt could engage in lofty discussions… that would be political suicide.
  - eternalban 4y ago
    > In what forum today are politicians given an opportunity to speak/write intellectually? That quote is from a letter from Jefferson to Madison. Barack Obama famously wrote a book. A "leader" leads by example. So I have a different take than your "sadly politicians are discouraged from thinking" and it goes like this: Patronizing and conditioning the political discourse to be at the level of 'high school civics class' is a powerful mechanism for keeping actual thinkers away from politics.
- snapplebobapple 4y ago
  Ron Paul. That is literally it.
  - blaser-waffle 4y ago
    the guy whose platform is going back on the gold standard and abolishing embassies to other countries? i'll give him credit for having a consistant platform and world view, but if he had his way we'd hand control of everything over to corporations -- and that's what his son is doing everything in his power to make happen.
    - snapplebobapple 4y ago
      The question wasn't who do you agree with that also writes good and can do other things good too, it was are there any politicians who write with the thoughtfulness approaching Jefferson (who would have agreed on the gold standard btw). Ron's ideas on freedom are excellent, they just aren't tempered with a strong understanding of market power and how it in itself can cause all the abuses the freedom from government he proposes is supposed to stop because there is little attempt to apply said freedoms to private companies who clearly have market power.

ericmay 4y ago

But then you site one of those politicians who wrote actual thoughtful discourse. Is there a single politician in office or who has recently left office in America who has written anything approaching the thoughtfulness of even this short piece? I have to believe that even if it were true that many or most politicians in 1780 were similar to politicians today on levels that you mention that they still had a serious crop of worthy political intellectuals whereas today we have probably 0.

JKCalhoun 4y ago
In what forum today are politicians given an opportunity to speak/write intellectually? Sadly too, there has been for some time an under current of anti-intellectualism in politics. It is my understanding that Barack Obama, as an example, is highly educated, no doubt could engage in lofty discussions… that would be political suicide.
- eternalban 4y ago
  > In what forum today are politicians given an opportunity to speak/write intellectually? That quote is from a letter from Jefferson to Madison. Barack Obama famously wrote a book. A "leader" leads by example. So I have a different take than your "sadly politicians are discouraged from thinking" and it goes like this: Patronizing and conditioning the political discourse to be at the level of 'high school civics class' is a powerful mechanism for keeping actual thinkers away from politics.
snapplebobapple 4y ago
Ron Paul. That is literally it.
- blaser-waffle 4y ago
  the guy whose platform is going back on the gold standard and abolishing embassies to other countries? i'll give him credit for having a consistant platform and world view, but if he had his way we'd hand control of everything over to corporations -- and that's what his son is doing everything in his power to make happen.
  - snapplebobapple 4y ago
    The question wasn't who do you agree with that also writes good and can do other things good too, it was are there any politicians who write with the thoughtfulness approaching Jefferson (who would have agreed on the gold standard btw). Ron's ideas on freedom are excellent, they just aren't tempered with a strong understanding of market power and how it in itself can cause all the abuses the freedom from government he proposes is supposed to stop because there is little attempt to apply said freedoms to private companies who clearly have market power.