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Nice. Lost me at subscription. (Edit, to clarify - not because of what it offers, but because the very existence of a subscription tends to create wrong incent

by eps 4y ago

Nice. Lost me at subscription. (Edit, to clarify - not because of what it offers, but because the very existence of a subscription tends to create wrong incentives for the company so to try and push people onto them. Maybe not now, but this will happen. Guaranteed.) Also, I don't see a properly supported way to actually get docs to/from the device without a cloud service, theirs or someone else's. For example, [1] says Transferring files using a USB cable NB: This functionality is currently experimental, as we haven't fully implemented it yet. 1. Connect the reMarkable with a USB cable to your computer. 2. ... 3. ... 4. Open a browser window on your computer and enter the address 10.11.99.1. What the heck. They report their tablet as a network interface? And then use their app to configure it? Meaning that I can't get anything in or out the tablet if their app's not installed. If they will go bankrupt, the app will stop launching and you'll end up with a pretty precise-engineered dud. Worse yet, they'll get acquired and you'll be forced into a subsciption. No bueno. This thing needs proper support for being accessible as a mass storage device. The rest is secondary. [1] https://support.remarkable.com/s/article/Transferring-files-using-a-USB-cable https://support.remarkable.com/s/article/Transferring-files-...

davidroetzel 4y ago
FWIW, there is a tiny webapp on the device that you access when you follow the instructions above. You do not need to install anything and it worked perfectly fine for me so far. Also, you can ssh into the device and even get root access. I have not tried it yet but I guess scp would work as well. Last but not least: They recently changed their subscription service in a big way, opening up a lot of features that were subscription-only before to all device owners: https://remarkable.com/blog/big-changes-are-coming-to-the-remarkable-ecosystem https://remarkable.com/blog/big-changes-are-coming-to-the-re...
- marcus_holmes 4y ago
  The thing is basically a tiny Linux machine running a webserver and ssh. You can mess with it all you like (with the usual caveats about knowing what you're doing and risking bricking it). I've ssh'd into mine and it looks just like you'd expect. I didn't mess with anything (because I know that I don't know what I'm doing with it). I've also used the "email me a PDF of this page" function a couple of times and it works perfectly. I bought mine before the subscription kicked in, and got grandfathered in, so I can't comment on that.
- nextaccountic 4y ago
  > Also, you can ssh into the device and even get root access How to get the password?
  - linmob 4y ago
    It's on the reMarkable, under 'Settings > Help > Copyrights and licenses'
  - visarga 4y ago
    It's in the settings menu https://remarkablewiki.com/tech/ssh#:~:text=to%20transfer%20files.-,Finding%20your%20Password%20and%20IP%20Address,addresses)%20in%20the%20settings%20menu https://remarkablewiki.com/tech/ssh#:~:text=to%20transfer%20....
- jimktrains2 4y ago
  scp doesn't work as their default reader renames the file and keeps a database. (That's probably why it doesn't present a usb disk.) Getting files to my remarkable (1) is honestly my only complaint with it. You can run koreader or others, and then scp would be usable.
  - m4lvin 4y ago
    I just type "pdf2remarkable.sh whatever.pdf" in my terminal and it's done. Using a variant of this script: https://github.com/adaerr/reMarkableScripts/blob/master/pdf2remarkable.sh https://github.com/adaerr/reMarkableScripts/blob/master/pdf2...
- blindseer 4y ago
  These features were free to begin with! Then they got greedy (imo a marketing / sales background product manager thought they should price more aggressively) and started charging for basic features! Honestly the device was completely unusable at that point. And now they are reverting ONLY because Kindle Scribe is going to be out soon, and they need to look like they are a similar product. I can guarantee that unless they have a major shake up in their organization or put it in writing that they will not change their service offerings, this will absolutely happen again.
  - indigochill 4y ago
    But if you're worried about greed ruining a good product, Kindle Scribe is an Amazon product and Amazon isn't exactly known for being a champion of its customers (though maybe I'm unfairly conflating their web store with the tablet branch). > or put it in writing that they will not change their service offerings Also I put zero faith in what a company puts in writing unless it's in a legally binding contract. Anything else is trivial to change or ignore.
    - CoastalCoder 4y ago
      For something really important, I binding contract might not be enough. IIRC there was a U.S. bankruptcy ruling where supposedly never-sharable info was sold off. Maybe having the relevant technical data (keys, source code, etc.) held in escrow by a trustworthy party would work?
    - kennend3 4y ago
      > (though maybe I'm unfairly conflating their web store with the tablet branch). this is exactly what you are doing. I've owned every kindle model since it was first released. I no longer shop on amazon's marketplace and cancelled my prime membership. If i want to buy "made in china" products i can cut out the middleman and go to aliexpress. The Kindle on the other hand is a solid product.
    - johngalt_ 4y ago
      Amazon may have many flaws, but it is pretty much known for being a champion of its customers.
- archontes 4y ago
  To echo this, I have a Likebook Mimas, and this is exactly how it's implemented. I realize they're different, but I'm not surprised they're similar.
Anunayj 4y ago
Actually I really like the network interface thing, it can allow a lot more control over the device than a block storage interfact will provide. This is one of the first things you do when you jailbreak your kindle, it allows you to ssh/sftp onto the device. I do think having a option to toggle between Block Device and Network would be nice
beowulfey 4y ago
It’s fully possible to access from a computer but is only easy really for computer power users. I never use the network sync features myself but for some people that is significantly easier. I think it’s a good compromise… they need the subscription to make money I guess. I really love mine. Bought it for notes and for reading academic papers. Absolutely excels at both these things. My biggest complaints: * not in color (not their fault) * i wish i could search my handwritten notes Otherwise, having an infinitely expandable library of notebooks is amazing.
klelatti 4y ago
I'd generally agree with you on subscriptions but not sure in this case. I think the subscription actually creates an incentive for them to keep the machine updated and working well and its set at a low level. I've seen too much hardware where once they make the profit on the sale they lose interest.
kennend3 4y ago
I've been considering getting one for some time, but they lost me at "subscription" as well. I have another tablet which works just fine, except their auth server was taken down and now it is a "precision-engineered dud" as you put it. I will go with the Amazon version. Sure Amazon has its problems but it is more likely to be around in the next few years and less likely to make changes to a subscription service in order to "monetize the customer" or some business nonsense.
- constantcrying 4y ago
  Have you looked at the BOOX tablets? I have an Note air 2, which is very similar to remarkable. The software is just android with a different UI. You can install whatever android app you want, transfer any file you want and so on. It is about as non locked down as you can get for a "normal" tablet, which you can't say about the amazon devices...
  - kennend3 4y ago
    Yes, i have actually narrowed it down to some sort of BOOX prior to the Scribe being released. Will delay my purchase for a bit and do another review of the BOOX offering vs Scribe. Amazon's devices are locked down (their tablets are terrible for this) but the kindle is a simple device and easy to side-load books bought elsewhere so it works well for me.
jzb 4y ago
I had one before they introduced the subscription. Pretty much soured me on the device. The software was still kludgy, and it was clear the direction they were going wasn’t a direction I wanted to go in. Pity, because the hardware was pretty good. But moving things to and from the device sucked.
- criddell 4y ago
  I wonder if they considered stepping back to the 1990's and sell the device and give free bug fixes but charge for new major versions of their software?
oakpond 4y ago
I agree that it should just be a mass storage device. Fwiw you can connect it to Wifi and transfer files using an open source GUI program called ReMy. It uses ssh. No cloud storage account needed. https://github.com/bordaigorl/remy https://github.com/bordaigorl/remy See also https://github.com/reHackable/awesome-reMarkable https://github.com/reHackable/awesome-reMarkable
fra 4y ago
Repeat after me: "Traditional hardware purchases do not support software investments", as Zach Supalla so decisively put it (https://www.atomsandbits.io/p/hardware-software-business-models https://www.atomsandbits.io/p/hardware-software-business-mod...). You can not ask for cloud-enabled conveniences, as well as bug fixes, security updates, and product improvements for years to come for a one time fee. Increasingly, devices are a delivery mechanism for software, and one way or another you have to pay for the software.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- joshspankit 4y ago
  In fact: I think remarkable is the perfect product for a subscription. Once they reach the ideal hardware there’s no need for them to continue changing it, no need to chase features, no need to try to make new colours or update the style just to sell more hardware to the same customers. But they still need to keep the company running for all the things that we’d want out of a long-term product (driver updates, bugfixes, security fixes, feature simplification). Personally I don’t want to foot the bill for “cloud services” as I’d rather self-host, but for Good Tools I’m comfortable with more of a Patreon model where my subscription helps everyone.
- wintermutestwin 4y ago
  >You can not ask for cloud-enabled conveniences, as well as bug fixes, security updates, and product improvements for years to come for a one time fee. Of all the products I own, this one has delighted me like no other - specifically because they are constantly updating the SW for free. I have bought every HW release from them for over a decade now: https://www.fractalaudio.com/iii/ https://www.fractalaudio.com/iii/ From the site: "Fractal Audio set a new precedent for the industry with the philosophy of free updates. Historically most companies have been content with one or two firmware updates over the life of a product (usually to fix bugs), or even charging a fee for updates. At Fractal Audio we believe a digital audio processor is a platform that grows as our knowledge and expertise grows. Just as personal computers receive frequent updates to improve performance and add features, we steadily release firmware updates to improve the capabilities of our products. The Axe-Fx II series received no fewer than 29 major (and dozens of minor) firmware upgrades over its life cycle. The Axe-Fx III is designed with the same anti-obsolescence in mind."
ge96 4y ago
I've had one for over a year. I have not connected it to WiFi yet, no subscription. I just draw in it. There are github repos to connect to it, would be nice rather than taking a picture of the screen.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

by eps 4y ago

davidroetzel 4y ago

FWIW, there is a tiny webapp on the device that you access when you follow the instructions above. You do not need to install anything and it worked perfectly fine for me so far. Also, you can ssh into the device and even get root access. I have not tried it yet but I guess scp would work as well. Last but not least: They recently changed their subscription service in a big way, opening up a lot of features that were subscription-only before to all device owners: https://remarkable.com/blog/big-changes-are-coming-to-the-remarkable-ecosystem https://remarkable.com/blog/big-changes-are-coming-to-the-re...

marcus_holmes 4y ago
The thing is basically a tiny Linux machine running a webserver and ssh. You can mess with it all you like (with the usual caveats about knowing what you're doing and risking bricking it). I've ssh'd into mine and it looks just like you'd expect. I didn't mess with anything (because I know that I don't know what I'm doing with it). I've also used the "email me a PDF of this page" function a couple of times and it works perfectly. I bought mine before the subscription kicked in, and got grandfathered in, so I can't comment on that.
nextaccountic 4y ago
> Also, you can ssh into the device and even get root access How to get the password?
- linmob 4y ago
  It's on the reMarkable, under 'Settings > Help > Copyrights and licenses'
- visarga 4y ago
  It's in the settings menu https://remarkablewiki.com/tech/ssh#:~:text=to%20transfer%20files.-,Finding%20your%20Password%20and%20IP%20Address,addresses)%20in%20the%20settings%20menu https://remarkablewiki.com/tech/ssh#:~:text=to%20transfer%20....
jimktrains2 4y ago
scp doesn't work as their default reader renames the file and keeps a database. (That's probably why it doesn't present a usb disk.) Getting files to my remarkable (1) is honestly my only complaint with it. You can run koreader or others, and then scp would be usable.
- m4lvin 4y ago
  I just type "pdf2remarkable.sh whatever.pdf" in my terminal and it's done. Using a variant of this script: https://github.com/adaerr/reMarkableScripts/blob/master/pdf2remarkable.sh https://github.com/adaerr/reMarkableScripts/blob/master/pdf2...
blindseer 4y ago
These features were free to begin with! Then they got greedy (imo a marketing / sales background product manager thought they should price more aggressively) and started charging for basic features! Honestly the device was completely unusable at that point. And now they are reverting ONLY because Kindle Scribe is going to be out soon, and they need to look like they are a similar product. I can guarantee that unless they have a major shake up in their organization or put it in writing that they will not change their service offerings, this will absolutely happen again.
- indigochill 4y ago
  But if you're worried about greed ruining a good product, Kindle Scribe is an Amazon product and Amazon isn't exactly known for being a champion of its customers (though maybe I'm unfairly conflating their web store with the tablet branch). > or put it in writing that they will not change their service offerings Also I put zero faith in what a company puts in writing unless it's in a legally binding contract. Anything else is trivial to change or ignore.
  - CoastalCoder 4y ago
    For something really important, I binding contract might not be enough. IIRC there was a U.S. bankruptcy ruling where supposedly never-sharable info was sold off. Maybe having the relevant technical data (keys, source code, etc.) held in escrow by a trustworthy party would work?
  - kennend3 4y ago
    > (though maybe I'm unfairly conflating their web store with the tablet branch). this is exactly what you are doing. I've owned every kindle model since it was first released. I no longer shop on amazon's marketplace and cancelled my prime membership. If i want to buy "made in china" products i can cut out the middleman and go to aliexpress. The Kindle on the other hand is a solid product.
  - johngalt_ 4y ago
    Amazon may have many flaws, but it is pretty much known for being a champion of its customers.
archontes 4y ago
To echo this, I have a Likebook Mimas, and this is exactly how it's implemented. I realize they're different, but I'm not surprised they're similar.

Anunayj 4y ago

Actually I really like the network interface thing, it can allow a lot more control over the device than a block storage interfact will provide. This is one of the first things you do when you jailbreak your kindle, it allows you to ssh/sftp onto the device. I do think having a option to toggle between Block Device and Network would be nice

beowulfey 4y ago

It’s fully possible to access from a computer but is only easy really for computer power users. I never use the network sync features myself but for some people that is significantly easier. I think it’s a good compromise… they need the subscription to make money I guess. I really love mine. Bought it for notes and for reading academic papers. Absolutely excels at both these things. My biggest complaints: * not in color (not their fault) * i wish i could search my handwritten notes Otherwise, having an infinitely expandable library of notebooks is amazing.

klelatti 4y ago

I'd generally agree with you on subscriptions but not sure in this case. I think the subscription actually creates an incentive for them to keep the machine updated and working well and its set at a low level. I've seen too much hardware where once they make the profit on the sale they lose interest.

kennend3 4y ago

I've been considering getting one for some time, but they lost me at "subscription" as well. I have another tablet which works just fine, except their auth server was taken down and now it is a "precision-engineered dud" as you put it. I will go with the Amazon version. Sure Amazon has its problems but it is more likely to be around in the next few years and less likely to make changes to a subscription service in order to "monetize the customer" or some business nonsense.

constantcrying 4y ago
Have you looked at the BOOX tablets? I have an Note air 2, which is very similar to remarkable. The software is just android with a different UI. You can install whatever android app you want, transfer any file you want and so on. It is about as non locked down as you can get for a "normal" tablet, which you can't say about the amazon devices...
- kennend3 4y ago
  Yes, i have actually narrowed it down to some sort of BOOX prior to the Scribe being released. Will delay my purchase for a bit and do another review of the BOOX offering vs Scribe. Amazon's devices are locked down (their tablets are terrible for this) but the kindle is a simple device and easy to side-load books bought elsewhere so it works well for me.

jzb 4y ago

I had one before they introduced the subscription. Pretty much soured me on the device. The software was still kludgy, and it was clear the direction they were going wasn’t a direction I wanted to go in. Pity, because the hardware was pretty good. But moving things to and from the device sucked.

criddell 4y ago
I wonder if they considered stepping back to the 1990's and sell the device and give free bug fixes but charge for new major versions of their software?

oakpond 4y ago

I agree that it should just be a mass storage device. Fwiw you can connect it to Wifi and transfer files using an open source GUI program called ReMy. It uses ssh. No cloud storage account needed. https://github.com/bordaigorl/remy https://github.com/bordaigorl/remy See also https://github.com/reHackable/awesome-reMarkable https://github.com/reHackable/awesome-reMarkable

fra 4y ago

Repeat after me: "Traditional hardware purchases do not support software investments", as Zach Supalla so decisively put it (https://www.atomsandbits.io/p/hardware-software-business-models https://www.atomsandbits.io/p/hardware-software-business-mod...). You can not ask for cloud-enabled conveniences, as well as bug fixes, security updates, and product improvements for years to come for a one time fee. Increasingly, devices are a delivery mechanism for software, and one way or another you have to pay for the software.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
joshspankit 4y ago
In fact: I think remarkable is the perfect product for a subscription. Once they reach the ideal hardware there’s no need for them to continue changing it, no need to chase features, no need to try to make new colours or update the style just to sell more hardware to the same customers. But they still need to keep the company running for all the things that we’d want out of a long-term product (driver updates, bugfixes, security fixes, feature simplification). Personally I don’t want to foot the bill for “cloud services” as I’d rather self-host, but for Good Tools I’m comfortable with more of a Patreon model where my subscription helps everyone.
wintermutestwin 4y ago
>You can not ask for cloud-enabled conveniences, as well as bug fixes, security updates, and product improvements for years to come for a one time fee. Of all the products I own, this one has delighted me like no other - specifically because they are constantly updating the SW for free. I have bought every HW release from them for over a decade now: https://www.fractalaudio.com/iii/ https://www.fractalaudio.com/iii/ From the site: "Fractal Audio set a new precedent for the industry with the philosophy of free updates. Historically most companies have been content with one or two firmware updates over the life of a product (usually to fix bugs), or even charging a fee for updates. At Fractal Audio we believe a digital audio processor is a platform that grows as our knowledge and expertise grows. Just as personal computers receive frequent updates to improve performance and add features, we steadily release firmware updates to improve the capabilities of our products. The Axe-Fx II series received no fewer than 29 major (and dozens of minor) firmware upgrades over its life cycle. The Axe-Fx III is designed with the same anti-obsolescence in mind."

ge96 4y ago

I've had one for over a year. I have not connected it to WiFi yet, no subscription. I just draw in it. There are github repos to connect to it, would be nice rather than taking a picture of the screen.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]