6 ms·

This "too cool for stuff" sounds like US culture. I never experienced that kind of thing in EU. We each had our own friend groups, and didn't really care what t

This "too cool for stuff" sounds like US culture. I never experienced that kind of thing in EU. We each had our own friend groups, and didn't really care what the other groups were into. I once heard an artist say (can't remember which one), that they loved playing in Europe, since everyone at a festival is there to have fun. While in US, everyone is there to look cool.

awild 4y ago
It's not a US thing and not even necessarily related to being bullied in school. Lots of parents scold their children for being into useless or eclectic hobbies.
nxmnxm99 4y ago
It's a nice sentiment but really isn't accurate.... unless you're suggesting nerds don't get bullied in Europe
- lmm 4y ago
  Not in the same way. US high school clique dynamics are very much US-specific.
- paganel 4y ago
  I was the nerd-ish type as a teenager back in 1990s Eastern Europe and I don't remember getting bullied. I knew things were slightly different in the US, I mean the whole "cool girls" group thing and all, as we were able to watch stuff like Saved by the Bell [1] on TV, but that kind of atmosphere seemed strange to us at the time. [1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096694/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096694/
  - gambiting 4y ago
    Same exact thing for me. Nerds definitely weren't getting bullied, if you were good at maths and physics maybe girls weren't into you but the "bullies" didn't really mess with people who were good at sciences(I guess partially because they had to copy their homework from someone, so keeping good relations with the "nerds" was actually a good survival strategy)
    - paganel 4y ago
      > I guess partially because they had to copy their homework from someone, so keeping good relations with the "nerds" was actually a good survival strategy I was about to also mention the "copy homework" part, but I thought that would have sounded too specific, certainly glad that I wasn't the only one to whom that happened :) I've had a former highschool colleague thank me for everything I had helped her with during high-school at our 20 years reunion recently, she was a very smart person back then (still is) but the Physics classes just weren't for her.
- watwut 4y ago
  I did not noticed nerd vs jock dichotomy the way Americans write about it on discussion forums at all. Nothing similar to movies stereotypes either. And my experience from my school is not like that either. You could have been "geek" or "nerd" or onto something and no one cared. Being good at something was cool or neutral.
- DocTomoe 4y ago
  As a pretty nerdish guy (Computers, space program, star trek, electronics, miniatures painting) in our central European equivalent of high school, I don't remember instances of bullying against me. Bullying was something that we were aware of, sure, but it seemed to come from (US-centered, go figure) media, and henfighting between the girls.
  - bythreads 4y ago
    Its funny that this is still a thing - the only reason why bullying happens is because the culture of it is not broken by the school itself. My kids go to a scholl where: 1: you can only ever arrange playdates or gatherings with a maximum of 2 other kids - or its the whole class 2: bullying is not allowed in any way shape or form 3: no one is allowed to exclude others from games, plays or events 4: this is rigorously enforced 5: no smartphones or the likes until 4th grade (11-12) This is then instilled in parents and kids, any crossing of those lines is debated in a democratic way and creates a selfenforcing positive feedback Loop
    - dagw 4y ago
      I think you have an extremely naive view of both children and bullying. My daughter goes to a school with very similar rules, and they're followed up by the school, and if you where to talk to the parents I'm sure at least half of them would claim that the school has no bullying or at least handles it very well. And despite all this, my daughter still got horribly bullied by her classmates.
      - bythreads 4y ago
        No not really, was bullied myself, understands the dynamics and bullying is a group phenomenon - not a one on one. If your peers a very aware of it not being allowed and discouraging it - you dont't get the social "credits" for applying it and it fizzles - then again if you dont learn the lesson you're expelled. Works
        dagw 4y ago
- coldtea 4y ago
  Nerds can be bullied everywhere. The difference with the US is about the social dynamics and the organization of school life, not about whether a nerd might be bullied. The same way school shootings are an order of magnitude or two less common in Europe, in an total area with more population than the US has.
- dagw 4y ago
  nerds don't get bullied in Europe While some 'nerds' certainly did (and do) get bullied, in my experience they where just as likely to get bullied by other 'nerds' as they where to get bullied by 'jocks'. You didn't get bullied because you played D&D or Warhammer or where good at math, you got bullied because you where weird and anti-social and unable to successfully navigate the unwritten social norms expected of you. Lots of people got straight A's in math and science and played Warhammer and had no problem with bullying.
- koonsolo 4y ago
  It depends on what you call 'nerd' I guess. I learned myself how to program at 14. Never got bullied for that, and my friends all thought that was cool. Did kids get bullied? Sure. But it had more to do with social awkwardness than certain interests or school results. And for the 'popular kids', I could not define who the popular kids in my school could be. Not all girls would try to hang out with certain guys. Each girl had their own interests and that could differ a lot. A concept like a "prom king or queen" for me is totally out of this world. I cannot imagine that concept in my youth, and could also have no clue who the hell would be nominated for such a thing. In my adult life now? Sure, probably the guy with the successful business driving the sports car. In my youth, no idea, nobody stood out like that.
graeber_28927 4y ago
Can confirm (though only anecdotally). I was bullied a lot in middle school. But in high school I got into customizing Sony Ericsson mobiles (changing the font, making custom themes with their SDK), javascript programming (entered a few competitions with some fellow nerds), music and singing in the choir and the theater. Somehow those things got me respect, admiration, and a girlfriend. As the "to cool for fun" kinds were slowly adulting up, they realized I have lots of opportunity to learn stuff and to socialize, lots of confidence too (most don't even dare to sing in music class), and will get into whatever college I want with whatever customized resume I want. I had a straight vision for a career in mechanical engineering (though am currently in IT), while they struggled to find a path in life in college application season.
abricq 4y ago
I wish this was true but unfortunately, I must disagree with saying that it is different in Europe. In France, 10 years ago, high-school was a constant lookout for who's the 'popular' kids (literally called like that). And reversely, nerds kid would often be made fun of, or socially excluded from breaks / activities. However, i have talked about this before with my wife who's from Italy and said that she never experienced this in Italy, apparently it was like you described: groups of friends, into studying and trying to make it to the next year. I wish it was like that in France. However, I very much enjoy the original's post analysis about 'being into things', I think it's just brilliantly exposed !
- coldtea 4y ago
  >I wish this was true but unfortunately, I must disagree with saying that it is different in Europe. In France, 10 years ago, high-school was a constant lookout for who's the 'popular' kids (literally called like that). A lot of this is a recentish phenomenon with kids mimicking what they see in US made movies and tv series - and also a whole lot more toned down than in the US. >And reversely, nerds kid would often be made fun of, or socially excluded from breaks / activities As a nerd, this has always been going on everywhere, and it's basically by definition, as people describe as "nerds" not just people that are good at school and have scientific and brainy interests, but the subset of the above that are socially clumsy, not into sports and the popular social activities, etc part of being a nerd. Kids with "nerd" interests that are also socially savvy and also like the stuff the majority does, are still popular. So, nerds being excluded in this sense is almost a tautology, and in many areas, even happens by preference (e.g. not liking parties and drinking). Of course one could argue that we nerds would like them if those were more into our preferences, but, well, those are not the preferences of the wider school population. So this is not exactly active ostracizing, just the 90% not changing what they like to accomondate the 10%). Would a nerd be targetted for bullying? Yes, but in the same sense that a non-nerdy "weird" kid, a kid with a disability, a fat kid, an "ugly" kid, etc. It's not particular about being a nerd, it's about being different - and it's not built into the wider structure of school life like some kind of appartheid between groups, the way it seems to be in the US. And the bullies are not groups, like the popular kids or the jocks vs the nerds, but individuals. The bullies are usually are not even popular (just the school's sadistic kids with troubled homes and no future). There are also not explicit popularity contests built into the school life, like "the prom", cheerleading, or some jock sport being a "big thing" with official school teams and everything, which appears to be the case in the US. If anything, the equivalent of the "popular" kids in some European countries would be the "cool kids" and those are not into school sports or popularity contests at all (more like the opposite). So, the forces at play here are not as strong as described (from accounts I've read) in the US in any European country that I know of.
bowsamic 4y ago
It's definitely also a think in the UK
cs02rm0 4y ago
Definitely a thing in the UK. Tall poppy syndrome - you didn't want to stand out in any way.
Gordonjcp 4y ago
I went to Infest (an industrial music festival) in Bradford quite a lot (sadly it looks like Bradford Uni are not doing events any more, so there might not be another one unless they find a venue :-/ ). It was more like an industrial music *conference* than a festival - you'd be hard-pressed to throw a tennis ball anywhere in the venue without hitting some highly-regarded musician. Like, you watch a big-name band on stage, and then ten minutes later you're standing at the bar with them comparing curry houses (and Bradford has a lot of those). There's a Green Room, sure, but the interesting people are out front watching bands. I don't think you get that anywhere else.
KoftaBob 4y ago
It's a human nature thing, the US did not invent the concept of bullying or being made to feel judged for being different. You just happened to grow up around good people, but not everyone is as lucky unfortunately.
croon 4y ago
I also grew up in the EU, but without knowing anything, my first guess is that this might be generational, and I assume you are a decade or so younger than GP (unproven hypothesis). GP's experience feels extremely familiar to mine, even including the later realizations, and this from growing up across the pond.
- koonsolo 4y ago
  I was born in 1979.
skeeter2020 4y ago
Even in a relatively more homogenous North America individual experiences are going to differ greatly. I think it's more illustrative to compare your public school years with post secondary, that's where I saw a huge difference.IMO the attributes that were mocked (and thus likely supressed) suddenly become unique and desireable. This might have been because if you somehow managed to maintain "the good type of weird" just when so many young adults were trying to figure out who they really were, you were ahead of the game.
Kiro 4y ago
"Too cool for stuff" is definitely a global thing.
c7b 4y ago
Nonsense. As ever so often, the German language even has an own word that kids use to deride peers who are too invested in learning stuff, or even just commit the offense of having better grades in school. Similar for other countries, I'd say European countries are no less hostile to nerdy kids than the US, at best.
- mikrl 4y ago
  Ahh, been a while since I’ve been able to use the British English term ‘swot’ - she’s such a swot - I need to swot up on this - don’t be so swotty - look at that swot with his books
screye 4y ago
I feel like the US's focus on high school sports means that the jock stereotype stays at the top of the highschool social hierarchy. The macho/ball-breaking culture of jocks means that the typical nerd gets bullied. Also, college admissions' aren't "holistic" here, so the typical nerd is not penalized for mix-maxing into his stats. (if you'd excuse my RPG lingo for a moment)
zach_garwood 4y ago
I think it's more generational than anything. Gen X and elder Millennials both shared this attitude when we were younger, but I don't think it applies to our younger counterparts.

awild 4y ago

It's not a US thing and not even necessarily related to being bullied in school. Lots of parents scold their children for being into useless or eclectic hobbies.

nxmnxm99 4y ago

It's a nice sentiment but really isn't accurate.... unless you're suggesting nerds don't get bullied in Europe

lmm 4y ago
Not in the same way. US high school clique dynamics are very much US-specific.
paganel 4y ago
I was the nerd-ish type as a teenager back in 1990s Eastern Europe and I don't remember getting bullied. I knew things were slightly different in the US, I mean the whole "cool girls" group thing and all, as we were able to watch stuff like Saved by the Bell [1] on TV, but that kind of atmosphere seemed strange to us at the time. [1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096694/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096694/
- gambiting 4y ago
  Same exact thing for me. Nerds definitely weren't getting bullied, if you were good at maths and physics maybe girls weren't into you but the "bullies" didn't really mess with people who were good at sciences(I guess partially because they had to copy their homework from someone, so keeping good relations with the "nerds" was actually a good survival strategy)
  - paganel 4y ago
    > I guess partially because they had to copy their homework from someone, so keeping good relations with the "nerds" was actually a good survival strategy I was about to also mention the "copy homework" part, but I thought that would have sounded too specific, certainly glad that I wasn't the only one to whom that happened :) I've had a former highschool colleague thank me for everything I had helped her with during high-school at our 20 years reunion recently, she was a very smart person back then (still is) but the Physics classes just weren't for her.
watwut 4y ago
I did not noticed nerd vs jock dichotomy the way Americans write about it on discussion forums at all. Nothing similar to movies stereotypes either. And my experience from my school is not like that either. You could have been "geek" or "nerd" or onto something and no one cared. Being good at something was cool or neutral.
DocTomoe 4y ago
As a pretty nerdish guy (Computers, space program, star trek, electronics, miniatures painting) in our central European equivalent of high school, I don't remember instances of bullying against me. Bullying was something that we were aware of, sure, but it seemed to come from (US-centered, go figure) media, and henfighting between the girls.
- bythreads 4y ago
  Its funny that this is still a thing - the only reason why bullying happens is because the culture of it is not broken by the school itself. My kids go to a scholl where: 1: you can only ever arrange playdates or gatherings with a maximum of 2 other kids - or its the whole class 2: bullying is not allowed in any way shape or form 3: no one is allowed to exclude others from games, plays or events 4: this is rigorously enforced 5: no smartphones or the likes until 4th grade (11-12) This is then instilled in parents and kids, any crossing of those lines is debated in a democratic way and creates a selfenforcing positive feedback Loop
  - dagw 4y ago
    I think you have an extremely naive view of both children and bullying. My daughter goes to a school with very similar rules, and they're followed up by the school, and if you where to talk to the parents I'm sure at least half of them would claim that the school has no bullying or at least handles it very well. And despite all this, my daughter still got horribly bullied by her classmates.
    - bythreads 4y ago
      No not really, was bullied myself, understands the dynamics and bullying is a group phenomenon - not a one on one. If your peers a very aware of it not being allowed and discouraging it - you dont't get the social "credits" for applying it and it fizzles - then again if you dont learn the lesson you're expelled. Works
      - dagw 4y ago
coldtea 4y ago
Nerds can be bullied everywhere. The difference with the US is about the social dynamics and the organization of school life, not about whether a nerd might be bullied. The same way school shootings are an order of magnitude or two less common in Europe, in an total area with more population than the US has.
dagw 4y ago
nerds don't get bullied in Europe While some 'nerds' certainly did (and do) get bullied, in my experience they where just as likely to get bullied by other 'nerds' as they where to get bullied by 'jocks'. You didn't get bullied because you played D&D or Warhammer or where good at math, you got bullied because you where weird and anti-social and unable to successfully navigate the unwritten social norms expected of you. Lots of people got straight A's in math and science and played Warhammer and had no problem with bullying.
koonsolo 4y ago
It depends on what you call 'nerd' I guess. I learned myself how to program at 14. Never got bullied for that, and my friends all thought that was cool. Did kids get bullied? Sure. But it had more to do with social awkwardness than certain interests or school results. And for the 'popular kids', I could not define who the popular kids in my school could be. Not all girls would try to hang out with certain guys. Each girl had their own interests and that could differ a lot. A concept like a "prom king or queen" for me is totally out of this world. I cannot imagine that concept in my youth, and could also have no clue who the hell would be nominated for such a thing. In my adult life now? Sure, probably the guy with the successful business driving the sports car. In my youth, no idea, nobody stood out like that.

graeber_28927 4y ago

Can confirm (though only anecdotally). I was bullied a lot in middle school. But in high school I got into customizing Sony Ericsson mobiles (changing the font, making custom themes with their SDK), javascript programming (entered a few competitions with some fellow nerds), music and singing in the choir and the theater. Somehow those things got me respect, admiration, and a girlfriend. As the "to cool for fun" kinds were slowly adulting up, they realized I have lots of opportunity to learn stuff and to socialize, lots of confidence too (most don't even dare to sing in music class), and will get into whatever college I want with whatever customized resume I want. I had a straight vision for a career in mechanical engineering (though am currently in IT), while they struggled to find a path in life in college application season.

abricq 4y ago

I wish this was true but unfortunately, I must disagree with saying that it is different in Europe. In France, 10 years ago, high-school was a constant lookout for who's the 'popular' kids (literally called like that). And reversely, nerds kid would often be made fun of, or socially excluded from breaks / activities. However, i have talked about this before with my wife who's from Italy and said that she never experienced this in Italy, apparently it was like you described: groups of friends, into studying and trying to make it to the next year. I wish it was like that in France. However, I very much enjoy the original's post analysis about 'being into things', I think it's just brilliantly exposed !

coldtea 4y ago
>I wish this was true but unfortunately, I must disagree with saying that it is different in Europe. In France, 10 years ago, high-school was a constant lookout for who's the 'popular' kids (literally called like that). A lot of this is a recentish phenomenon with kids mimicking what they see in US made movies and tv series - and also a whole lot more toned down than in the US. >And reversely, nerds kid would often be made fun of, or socially excluded from breaks / activities As a nerd, this has always been going on everywhere, and it's basically by definition, as people describe as "nerds" not just people that are good at school and have scientific and brainy interests, but the subset of the above that are socially clumsy, not into sports and the popular social activities, etc part of being a nerd. Kids with "nerd" interests that are also socially savvy and also like the stuff the majority does, are still popular. So, nerds being excluded in this sense is almost a tautology, and in many areas, even happens by preference (e.g. not liking parties and drinking). Of course one could argue that we nerds would like them if those were more into our preferences, but, well, those are not the preferences of the wider school population. So this is not exactly active ostracizing, just the 90% not changing what they like to accomondate the 10%). Would a nerd be targetted for bullying? Yes, but in the same sense that a non-nerdy "weird" kid, a kid with a disability, a fat kid, an "ugly" kid, etc. It's not particular about being a nerd, it's about being different - and it's not built into the wider structure of school life like some kind of appartheid between groups, the way it seems to be in the US. And the bullies are not groups, like the popular kids or the jocks vs the nerds, but individuals. The bullies are usually are not even popular (just the school's sadistic kids with troubled homes and no future). There are also not explicit popularity contests built into the school life, like "the prom", cheerleading, or some jock sport being a "big thing" with official school teams and everything, which appears to be the case in the US. If anything, the equivalent of the "popular" kids in some European countries would be the "cool kids" and those are not into school sports or popularity contests at all (more like the opposite). So, the forces at play here are not as strong as described (from accounts I've read) in the US in any European country that I know of.

bowsamic 4y ago

It's definitely also a think in the UK

cs02rm0 4y ago

Definitely a thing in the UK. Tall poppy syndrome - you didn't want to stand out in any way.

Gordonjcp 4y ago

I went to Infest (an industrial music festival) in Bradford quite a lot (sadly it looks like Bradford Uni are not doing events any more, so there might not be another one unless they find a venue :-/ ). It was more like an industrial music *conference* than a festival - you'd be hard-pressed to throw a tennis ball anywhere in the venue without hitting some highly-regarded musician. Like, you watch a big-name band on stage, and then ten minutes later you're standing at the bar with them comparing curry houses (and Bradford has a lot of those). There's a Green Room, sure, but the interesting people are out front watching bands. I don't think you get that anywhere else.

KoftaBob 4y ago

It's a human nature thing, the US did not invent the concept of bullying or being made to feel judged for being different. You just happened to grow up around good people, but not everyone is as lucky unfortunately.

croon 4y ago

I also grew up in the EU, but without knowing anything, my first guess is that this might be generational, and I assume you are a decade or so younger than GP (unproven hypothesis). GP's experience feels extremely familiar to mine, even including the later realizations, and this from growing up across the pond.

koonsolo 4y ago
I was born in 1979.

skeeter2020 4y ago

Even in a relatively more homogenous North America individual experiences are going to differ greatly. I think it's more illustrative to compare your public school years with post secondary, that's where I saw a huge difference.IMO the attributes that were mocked (and thus likely supressed) suddenly become unique and desireable. This might have been because if you somehow managed to maintain "the good type of weird" just when so many young adults were trying to figure out who they really were, you were ahead of the game.

Kiro 4y ago

"Too cool for stuff" is definitely a global thing.

c7b 4y ago

Nonsense. As ever so often, the German language even has an own word that kids use to deride peers who are too invested in learning stuff, or even just commit the offense of having better grades in school. Similar for other countries, I'd say European countries are no less hostile to nerdy kids than the US, at best.

mikrl 4y ago
Ahh, been a while since I’ve been able to use the British English term ‘swot’ - she’s such a swot - I need to swot up on this - don’t be so swotty - look at that swot with his books

screye 4y ago

I feel like the US's focus on high school sports means that the jock stereotype stays at the top of the highschool social hierarchy. The macho/ball-breaking culture of jocks means that the typical nerd gets bullied. Also, college admissions' aren't "holistic" here, so the typical nerd is not penalized for mix-maxing into his stats. (if you'd excuse my RPG lingo for a moment)

zach_garwood 4y ago

I think it's more generational than anything. Gen X and elder Millennials both shared this attitude when we were younger, but I don't think it applies to our younger counterparts.