6 ms·

Yep they should also do frontend, backend, dev ops, security, and on-call. Hey why dont we throw in project management and product management while we're at it.

Yep they should also do frontend, backend, dev ops, security, and on-call. Hey why dont we throw in project management and product management while we're at it. And it's not like those UI/UX people do much either, so let's just make the devs do that too. Finally to wrap it all up we'll have like 5 mandatory meetings a week to check in on them.

ls15 4y ago
While they are at it, they could also get new coffee beans for the machine, clean the toilets and do some sales so we can get rid of the dedicated roles for that.
- autotune 4y ago
  One of the downsides of work from home being the new norm is that has already become part of the job.
  - Beached 4y ago
    coffee is much better now though :)
- _jal 4y ago
  If you empty the coffee machine, hell yes you better refill it. Or do you have a valet where you work?
  - ls15 4y ago
    I wouldn't trust an engineer with my coffee.
uri4 4y ago
Devs should also do HR, project management, CEO... I do all of that stuff. But at my own company for myself...
pjmlp 4y ago
You just decribed what is like to be in a startup during its early days.
alluro2 4y ago
Are...are you my boss?
club_tropical 4y ago
Most importantly, however, the CEO should know the names of janitors and maybe clean a toilet or two, you know, to not lose touch with the employees.
- skywal_l 4y ago
  I believe this is what they do in Japan. Bosses of small to medium companies regularly clean toilets as an act of humility. At least I know for sure that kids in school clean their own school. Maybe someone from Japan can chime in.
  - club_tropical 4y ago
- mikkergp 4y ago
  It sounds like you’re being sarcastic But I’ve heard this advice a lot actually, especially for small businesses
  - club_tropical 4y ago
    I’ve heard it, too, of course. It is gaslighting. The tyranny of constantly having to signal worship of humility and countersignal pride and pursuit of distinction. The truth is, nobody who make an effective company did it because they cleaned the toilets or knew the janitor’s name. They might do those things strategically / instinctively almost with the sole purpose of conspicuous virtue signaling.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - mikkergp 4y ago
      > sole purpose of conspicuous virtue signaling. I don't understand this sense that everything positive people do is actually negative. Part of being a good leader is _acting_ like a good leader. You can't be the type of leader who makes people feel special by remembering their name if you don't actually remember anyones name. That means rolling your sleeves up every once in a while. At a 221,000 person company like Microsoft? Ok, maybe that's not accomplishing much(unless the CEO caused the poop-splosion, then it's just good manners) but at a 50 person warehouse? Yeah, sometimes you take on some shitty work. Maybe, every once in a while the CEO is _actually_ the best person to do it. A CEO can strategize while plunging a few toilets, a line worker can't work the line when theyre doing it.
0xferruccio 4y ago
OP here. That’s what they do, we’re a team of 4 engineers and we all work on the product end to end. We have a full time product designer though as doing user interviews is time consuming and hard to do with the routine of an engineer.
wildrhythms 4y ago
We already do this, it's called being hired as a full-stack developer. :)
replygirl 4y ago
your comment describes an interdisciplinarian with basic communication skills, which is exactly the type of engineer most teams should be looking to hire, even if only to strengthen collaboration between dedicated design, engineering, and product functions > they should also do frontend, backend, dev ops, security, and on-call this is exactly what a full stack in a small- to mid-sized team does. all things dev + on-call rotations. > why dont we throw in project management and product management while we're at it this has been a collaborative effort on most of the teams i've been on, even with a dedicated PM > it's not like those UI/UX people do much either, so let's just make the devs do that too in my experience design output from an engineer with junior-to-mid design experience is more successful than that from most mid-to-senior designers without engineering backgrounds > we'll have like 5 mandatory meetings a week to check in on them you're bothered by your job checking in once a day during the work week?
- jackblemming 4y ago
  From the sound of your post, you seem to enjoy the ever increasing set of responsibilities tacked onto the "fullstack" title. Many do not. Especially because pay does not seem to increase at the rate new responsibilities are added. But if you enjoy making your boss richer for no increased pay, have at it. It may surprise you, but I do all the things I described for my own company and I keep all the money I make from it. I would never expect someone I hired as a developer to do everything I do, for likely peanuts compared to what I make. But I guess this is how some devs want to be treated. More responsibility isn't always a good thing.
  - replygirl 4y ago
    a broader set of responsibilities doesn't necessarily equate to more work. in my experience there's no correlation at all between the scope, intensity, and exploitativeness of work i agree entirely with the substance of your post and don't understand how it conflicts with the substance of mine. i hold to the same standards i laid out whether i'm working for a boss or working with a co-op or other worker-self-directed group

ls15 4y ago

While they are at it, they could also get new coffee beans for the machine, clean the toilets and do some sales so we can get rid of the dedicated roles for that.

autotune 4y ago
One of the downsides of work from home being the new norm is that has already become part of the job.
- Beached 4y ago
  coffee is much better now though :)
_jal 4y ago
If you empty the coffee machine, hell yes you better refill it. Or do you have a valet where you work?
- ls15 4y ago
  I wouldn't trust an engineer with my coffee.

uri4 4y ago

Devs should also do HR, project management, CEO... I do all of that stuff. But at my own company for myself...

pjmlp 4y ago

You just decribed what is like to be in a startup during its early days.

alluro2 4y ago

Are...are you my boss?

club_tropical 4y ago

Most importantly, however, the CEO should know the names of janitors and maybe clean a toilet or two, you know, to not lose touch with the employees.

skywal_l 4y ago
I believe this is what they do in Japan. Bosses of small to medium companies regularly clean toilets as an act of humility. At least I know for sure that kids in school clean their own school. Maybe someone from Japan can chime in.
- club_tropical 4y ago
mikkergp 4y ago
It sounds like you’re being sarcastic But I’ve heard this advice a lot actually, especially for small businesses
- club_tropical 4y ago
  I’ve heard it, too, of course. It is gaslighting. The tyranny of constantly having to signal worship of humility and countersignal pride and pursuit of distinction. The truth is, nobody who make an effective company did it because they cleaned the toilets or knew the janitor’s name. They might do those things strategically / instinctively almost with the sole purpose of conspicuous virtue signaling.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - mikkergp 4y ago
    > sole purpose of conspicuous virtue signaling. I don't understand this sense that everything positive people do is actually negative. Part of being a good leader is _acting_ like a good leader. You can't be the type of leader who makes people feel special by remembering their name if you don't actually remember anyones name. That means rolling your sleeves up every once in a while. At a 221,000 person company like Microsoft? Ok, maybe that's not accomplishing much(unless the CEO caused the poop-splosion, then it's just good manners) but at a 50 person warehouse? Yeah, sometimes you take on some shitty work. Maybe, every once in a while the CEO is _actually_ the best person to do it. A CEO can strategize while plunging a few toilets, a line worker can't work the line when theyre doing it.

0xferruccio 4y ago

OP here. That’s what they do, we’re a team of 4 engineers and we all work on the product end to end. We have a full time product designer though as doing user interviews is time consuming and hard to do with the routine of an engineer.

wildrhythms 4y ago

We already do this, it's called being hired as a full-stack developer. :)

replygirl 4y ago

your comment describes an interdisciplinarian with basic communication skills, which is exactly the type of engineer most teams should be looking to hire, even if only to strengthen collaboration between dedicated design, engineering, and product functions > they should also do frontend, backend, dev ops, security, and on-call this is exactly what a full stack in a small- to mid-sized team does. all things dev + on-call rotations. > why dont we throw in project management and product management while we're at it this has been a collaborative effort on most of the teams i've been on, even with a dedicated PM > it's not like those UI/UX people do much either, so let's just make the devs do that too in my experience design output from an engineer with junior-to-mid design experience is more successful than that from most mid-to-senior designers without engineering backgrounds > we'll have like 5 mandatory meetings a week to check in on them you're bothered by your job checking in once a day during the work week?

jackblemming 4y ago
From the sound of your post, you seem to enjoy the ever increasing set of responsibilities tacked onto the "fullstack" title. Many do not. Especially because pay does not seem to increase at the rate new responsibilities are added. But if you enjoy making your boss richer for no increased pay, have at it. It may surprise you, but I do all the things I described for my own company and I keep all the money I make from it. I would never expect someone I hired as a developer to do everything I do, for likely peanuts compared to what I make. But I guess this is how some devs want to be treated. More responsibility isn't always a good thing.
- replygirl 4y ago
  a broader set of responsibilities doesn't necessarily equate to more work. in my experience there's no correlation at all between the scope, intensity, and exploitativeness of work i agree entirely with the substance of your post and don't understand how it conflicts with the substance of mine. i hold to the same standards i laid out whether i'm working for a boss or working with a co-op or other worker-self-directed group