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I do the exact opposite. Buying a gift for an expert when you are not an expert is always going to lead to disappointment, no matter how well they hide it. I

I do the exact opposite. Buying a gift for an expert when you are not an expert is always going to lead to disappointment, no matter how well they hide it. I buy gifts only from areas that I am an expert in, and I hope my friends may not be as enthusiastic about the area as I am, but at least we both know I got them the best for them.

quickthrower2 4y ago
Agreed. Beans from an exotic location are widely available worldwide, and they might care about how they were roasted as much as the origin. A gift voucher for a good local roaster might be good. Or ask them what gadget they want next for their setup.
- kqr 4y ago
  Any coffee nerd I've come across cares almost only about type of bean and roasting (recency followed by intensity).
mathattack 4y ago
It’s not the value of the gift, it’s the thoughtfulness. “I know you like X, and I thought about you” is a very different sentiment than “Let me gift you with my expertise.” The economists I’ve talked to say if you’re maximizing Utility then give cash.
- andreareina 4y ago
  Part of thoughtfulness is, "is this going to just sit in a drawer and take up space?" I absolutely appreciate the thought, but a tool I won't use because it doesn't match my needs or is just unergonomic is a waste.
- quickthrower2 4y ago
  The comedians say “cash: the gift card you can use anywhere!”
  - computator 4y ago
    And the converse from The Simpsons: “gift card: just like cash but more limited”
  - foobarbecue 4y ago
    It's so bizarre to me that gift cards don't come at a discount. Buying a gift card is so clearly an unfair transaction to the benefit of the merchant.
    - lmm 4y ago
      They do on the secondary market.
      - quickthrower2 4y ago
        That is another reason to abolish gift cards. Money laundering and scams. Last time I tried to buy a (n > 1) gift cards I got the 3rd degree.
    - computator 4y ago
      But then many people would first buy the gift card to get the 5% or whatever discount, then buy the item they were going to buy anyway. Now that I think about it, I think a gift card has to be priced at exactly a 1:1 price. (You can't price it higher because people will find that to be outrageous.)
      - foobarbecue 4y ago
        Ah, good point. Maybe add a minimum delay? Then you're loaning money and getting interest...
        kubanczyk 4y ago
        > add a minimum delay Do not enter a commercial transaction that doesn't benefit you?
    - 4y ago
cercatrova 4y ago
Indeed. IMO the article draws the exact opposite conclusion from what they should get their expert friend, something that is not which they likely know little about.
- dymk 4y ago
  The coffee friend appreciates the thought that went into the naïve gift, even if it’s not exactly what they would have picked out themselves.
  - cercatrova 4y ago
    The sibling comment explains it better than I can (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33352385 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33352385) and I feel basically the same way. I will feel grateful but it's just a waste on both sides of its not something I'll use, done for the sake of societal niceness, but I find it sad to think of all the waste it's created. There's a reason regifting is popular and even parodied in media.
SECProto 4y ago
I am "that coffee friend", and I disagree. I appreciate the coffee anyone might get me. It doesn't have to be fancy, it may be fantastic or it may not be - but it's very thoughtful, and I always appreciate it. Generally people shouldn't get me coffee gear - as that could lead to disappointment. But the beans themself? always well received.
- lelandfe 4y ago
  > Generally people shouldn't get me coffee gear - as that could lead to disappointment Family member once heard I was getting into cooking, and bought me these bad, half oven mitts. I feel lousy every time they come over now: their oven mitts were quickly replaced. But yeah – buying me a small, consumable gift will always be a treasured thing, and never an inconvenience. At worst, I don't enjoy the coffee much. I still received a gift and got to hear a story of its purchase.
- plorkyeran 4y ago
  Yeah, something consumable is definitely the way to go. The coffee I've been gifted has never been something I'd buy more of, but I can enjoy occasionally drinking something different from usual even if it's something I like less than my usual. At worst if I drink it and decide it's not worth finishing, there's little awkwardness in appreciating the sentiment but just throwing it away. A gadget I use twice and then decide I don't like I'll instead feel obligated to store forever, which will result in the opposite feeling as the gift was intended to provoke.
- dheera 4y ago
  I think it's easier for consumables. I'm into tea and I'd say the same. You could get me any tea and one way or another I'd find a way to enjoy, since I enjoy non-fancy teas and enjoy trying new teas I haven't seen before. I'm also into photography, and any kind of photography gear you get me is likely to be incompatible with my setups or the types of work I do. Same with cooking. Someone got me a frying pan once for my birthday because the coating was coming off, and I had been intending to buy a new one. It was a nice frying pan, but it isn't compatible with my induction stove, so that gift pan is sitting unused in a drawer somewhere, and I had to buy my own new one that is compatible with my stove. Basically -- Buy consumables as gifts. Never buy equipment, unless they're a enthusiastic beginner and you're an expert.
andreareina 4y ago
It depends. As a coffee nerd (but not a snob) a 250g bag of coffee goes fast and even if it's not the best would be appreciated. As someone who likes to cook, kitchen stuff is likely to go into the drawer and not see the light of day again until I move.
- 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
  Never buy gear for an enthusiast unless you have explicitly asked them what they want and always get that exact thing.
ylhert 4y ago
Coffee friend here! This is the way! When people get me coffee or coffee paraphernalia as a gift, they tend to fall into a number of traps: - Not understanding my nuanced preferences and getting me something I know about and don't like - Not appreciating how to choose a good product (for example, with beans, an old roast date of more than 30 days means sad & stale coffee) - Getting me something I like but I already have In many cases I of course smile and am polite, and of course I am truly grateful for the thought, _but_ there is a level of disappointment which I have to hide because it saddens me to be wasteful, and I don't like putting on a performance. There are very few if any coffee things that I like but don't have, and are at a gift level price point (<$100). For consumables like filters and beans I have nuanced preference and it's unlikely that you'll happen to choose something that I like, but very likely that you'll choose something I know I don't like. From this experience as a recipient, I have learned to be very careful about the gifts I give to others. I steer clear of things in the realm of someones passions, and try to share something I know and love. For example, I don't give whiskey lovers whiskey, or whiskey glasses, because I don't know what kind of whiskey they like, and I'm likely to give them something they know and don't like! So often times I'll use my superpower of knowing a lot about coffee to give the whiskey lover a high quality coffee that they would probably have more difficulty finding or choosing themselves. A great conversation can ensue where I can share why I think that coffee is great and interesting, and why I think they'll enjoy it. Conversely, when Whiskey person wants to get me a gift, I would much prefer they give me a whiskey they like and think is great, and explain it's merits to me. I don't know much about whiskey, so it's easy to wow me and I love learning about it from friends who do!
- kibibyte 4y ago
  One of the funnier problems I ran into recently was when a friend who actually understood my coffee preferences pretty well (though I don't think he actually grasps my preferences fully) got me coffee that was actually not bad, except that I already had way too much (and more preferable) coffee in the freezer. Fortunately, even if I don't end up brewing all of it, I don't let it go to waste. In the past, I combined all of this throwaway coffee to season some new fancy burrs.
stephen_g 4y ago
Yeah, this is my experience too - in general, it's best to never buy gear for an enthusiast in something unless you really know exactly, specifically what they want and don't have. Even if you're an expert, you might just have different preferences to them and then they'll feel guilty about keeping something around that they don't use, or about giving it away or selling it... But if you're an enthusiast/expert and they're interested but not to that level, and you have a decent idea of what gear they have and don't have, then it can work. In terms of coffee beans, yeah, they can be a nice gift if you have a bit of an idea (good small roaster, roast type, e.g. espresso or filter, freshness, etc.) but for me at least, I basically always have just enough coffee for what I need (I buy a new 250g bag of espresso roast about weekly, one or two days before I run out of the old stuff)... But I'm always happy to try something, just don't go overboard and buy a kilo or something! 250g is plenty!
YurgenJurgensen 4y ago
As someone who's gotten a reputation for liking chillis and hot sauce, I've definitely pretended to enjoy an awful lot of mediocre bars of chilli chocolate from people who don't understand what makes a good chilli. I don't drink wine, and I don't buy wine for my wine-loving friends because I know I don't understand wine enough to know what I'm buying.

quickthrower2 4y ago

Agreed. Beans from an exotic location are widely available worldwide, and they might care about how they were roasted as much as the origin. A gift voucher for a good local roaster might be good. Or ask them what gadget they want next for their setup.

kqr 4y ago
Any coffee nerd I've come across cares almost only about type of bean and roasting (recency followed by intensity).

mathattack 4y ago

It’s not the value of the gift, it’s the thoughtfulness. “I know you like X, and I thought about you” is a very different sentiment than “Let me gift you with my expertise.” The economists I’ve talked to say if you’re maximizing Utility then give cash.

andreareina 4y ago
Part of thoughtfulness is, "is this going to just sit in a drawer and take up space?" I absolutely appreciate the thought, but a tool I won't use because it doesn't match my needs or is just unergonomic is a waste.
quickthrower2 4y ago
The comedians say “cash: the gift card you can use anywhere!”
- computator 4y ago
  And the converse from The Simpsons: “gift card: just like cash but more limited”
- foobarbecue 4y ago
  It's so bizarre to me that gift cards don't come at a discount. Buying a gift card is so clearly an unfair transaction to the benefit of the merchant.
  - lmm 4y ago
    They do on the secondary market.
    - quickthrower2 4y ago
      That is another reason to abolish gift cards. Money laundering and scams. Last time I tried to buy a (n > 1) gift cards I got the 3rd degree.
  - computator 4y ago
    But then many people would first buy the gift card to get the 5% or whatever discount, then buy the item they were going to buy anyway. Now that I think about it, I think a gift card has to be priced at exactly a 1:1 price. (You can't price it higher because people will find that to be outrageous.)
    - foobarbecue 4y ago
      Ah, good point. Maybe add a minimum delay? Then you're loaning money and getting interest...
      - kubanczyk 4y ago
        > add a minimum delay Do not enter a commercial transaction that doesn't benefit you?
  - 4y ago

cercatrova 4y ago

Indeed. IMO the article draws the exact opposite conclusion from what they should get their expert friend, something that is not which they likely know little about.

dymk 4y ago
The coffee friend appreciates the thought that went into the naïve gift, even if it’s not exactly what they would have picked out themselves.
- cercatrova 4y ago
  The sibling comment explains it better than I can (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33352385 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33352385) and I feel basically the same way. I will feel grateful but it's just a waste on both sides of its not something I'll use, done for the sake of societal niceness, but I find it sad to think of all the waste it's created. There's a reason regifting is popular and even parodied in media.

SECProto 4y ago

I am "that coffee friend", and I disagree. I appreciate the coffee anyone might get me. It doesn't have to be fancy, it may be fantastic or it may not be - but it's very thoughtful, and I always appreciate it. Generally people shouldn't get me coffee gear - as that could lead to disappointment. But the beans themself? always well received.

lelandfe 4y ago
> Generally people shouldn't get me coffee gear - as that could lead to disappointment Family member once heard I was getting into cooking, and bought me these bad, half oven mitts. I feel lousy every time they come over now: their oven mitts were quickly replaced. But yeah – buying me a small, consumable gift will always be a treasured thing, and never an inconvenience. At worst, I don't enjoy the coffee much. I still received a gift and got to hear a story of its purchase.
plorkyeran 4y ago
Yeah, something consumable is definitely the way to go. The coffee I've been gifted has never been something I'd buy more of, but I can enjoy occasionally drinking something different from usual even if it's something I like less than my usual. At worst if I drink it and decide it's not worth finishing, there's little awkwardness in appreciating the sentiment but just throwing it away. A gadget I use twice and then decide I don't like I'll instead feel obligated to store forever, which will result in the opposite feeling as the gift was intended to provoke.
dheera 4y ago
I think it's easier for consumables. I'm into tea and I'd say the same. You could get me any tea and one way or another I'd find a way to enjoy, since I enjoy non-fancy teas and enjoy trying new teas I haven't seen before. I'm also into photography, and any kind of photography gear you get me is likely to be incompatible with my setups or the types of work I do. Same with cooking. Someone got me a frying pan once for my birthday because the coating was coming off, and I had been intending to buy a new one. It was a nice frying pan, but it isn't compatible with my induction stove, so that gift pan is sitting unused in a drawer somewhere, and I had to buy my own new one that is compatible with my stove. Basically -- Buy consumables as gifts. Never buy equipment, unless they're a enthusiastic beginner and you're an expert.

andreareina 4y ago

It depends. As a coffee nerd (but not a snob) a 250g bag of coffee goes fast and even if it's not the best would be appreciated. As someone who likes to cook, kitchen stuff is likely to go into the drawer and not see the light of day again until I move.

2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
Never buy gear for an enthusiast unless you have explicitly asked them what they want and always get that exact thing.

ylhert 4y ago

Coffee friend here! This is the way! When people get me coffee or coffee paraphernalia as a gift, they tend to fall into a number of traps: - Not understanding my nuanced preferences and getting me something I know about and don't like - Not appreciating how to choose a good product (for example, with beans, an old roast date of more than 30 days means sad & stale coffee) - Getting me something I like but I already have In many cases I of course smile and am polite, and of course I am truly grateful for the thought, _but_ there is a level of disappointment which I have to hide because it saddens me to be wasteful, and I don't like putting on a performance. There are very few if any coffee things that I like but don't have, and are at a gift level price point (<$100). For consumables like filters and beans I have nuanced preference and it's unlikely that you'll happen to choose something that I like, but very likely that you'll choose something I know I don't like. From this experience as a recipient, I have learned to be very careful about the gifts I give to others. I steer clear of things in the realm of someones passions, and try to share something I know and love. For example, I don't give whiskey lovers whiskey, or whiskey glasses, because I don't know what kind of whiskey they like, and I'm likely to give them something they know and don't like! So often times I'll use my superpower of knowing a lot about coffee to give the whiskey lover a high quality coffee that they would probably have more difficulty finding or choosing themselves. A great conversation can ensue where I can share why I think that coffee is great and interesting, and why I think they'll enjoy it. Conversely, when Whiskey person wants to get me a gift, I would much prefer they give me a whiskey they like and think is great, and explain it's merits to me. I don't know much about whiskey, so it's easy to wow me and I love learning about it from friends who do!

kibibyte 4y ago
One of the funnier problems I ran into recently was when a friend who actually understood my coffee preferences pretty well (though I don't think he actually grasps my preferences fully) got me coffee that was actually not bad, except that I already had way too much (and more preferable) coffee in the freezer. Fortunately, even if I don't end up brewing all of it, I don't let it go to waste. In the past, I combined all of this throwaway coffee to season some new fancy burrs.

stephen_g 4y ago

Yeah, this is my experience too - in general, it's best to never buy gear for an enthusiast in something unless you really know exactly, specifically what they want and don't have. Even if you're an expert, you might just have different preferences to them and then they'll feel guilty about keeping something around that they don't use, or about giving it away or selling it... But if you're an enthusiast/expert and they're interested but not to that level, and you have a decent idea of what gear they have and don't have, then it can work. In terms of coffee beans, yeah, they can be a nice gift if you have a bit of an idea (good small roaster, roast type, e.g. espresso or filter, freshness, etc.) but for me at least, I basically always have just enough coffee for what I need (I buy a new 250g bag of espresso roast about weekly, one or two days before I run out of the old stuff)... But I'm always happy to try something, just don't go overboard and buy a kilo or something! 250g is plenty!

YurgenJurgensen 4y ago

As someone who's gotten a reputation for liking chillis and hot sauce, I've definitely pretended to enjoy an awful lot of mediocre bars of chilli chocolate from people who don't understand what makes a good chilli. I don't drink wine, and I don't buy wine for my wine-loving friends because I know I don't understand wine enough to know what I'm buying.