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> There are over a dozen confirmed deaths at this point, directly attributable to the outright lies spewed by Elon and co. regarding its' capabilities. Got a l

> There are over a dozen confirmed deaths at this point, directly attributable to the outright lies spewed by Elon and co. regarding its' capabilities. Got a link to a list? The few cases I've investigated turned out either not to have it enabled or were cases of serious negligence on behalf of the driver. Also, they get a user manual they need to read/click through before they're allowed to use the autopilot.

ramesh31 4y ago
>Got a link to a list? There's been 10 just this year: https://fortune.com/2022/10/19/tesla-cars-involved-in-10-of-the-11-new-crash-deaths-linked-to-automated-tech-vehicles/ https://fortune.com/2022/10/19/tesla-cars-involved-in-10-of-...
- concordDance 4y ago
  That's not the list I've asked for. Those are deaths in car crashes that involved Teslas that were using automated systems. This does not mean the Tesla was at fault (could be other driver or Tesla driver) or that autopilot was involved (the cruise control counts as an automated system) and certainly doesn't mean that system misunderstandings caused by marketing were the cause. I'm fairly sure the grandparent just didn't consider what the sentence constructed was actually saying and was just expressing a dislike of automated car marketing. Unfortunately, people often believe unsourced comments on hackernews to be literally true rather than sentimentally true.
  - ShamelessC 4y ago
    > Unfortunately, people often believe unsourced comments on hackernews to be literally true rather than sentimentally true Hi fellow watcher of the impending societal collapse. Glad to know I'm not alone. I have no answers for you but agree that this has gotten significantly worse since 2015 (although such imprecise discourse was inevitable with the creation of social media). In particular this site discourages commenting about "did you read the article?" which is a great rule but does slowly ensure that no one in the comments has any reason to be actually informed, just plausibly informed.
masswerk 4y ago
There's a Google Sheet for this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ESnyJ4b7m96OCjs3GSQ6EGF7YOMuv0XV-ROXTYIazTs/edit#gid=26425775 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ESnyJ4b7m96OCjs3GSQ6...
- concordDance 4y ago
  While I appreciate the link, it doesn't contain numbers of the sort needed. In particular this is just deaths involving teslas with autopilot enabled, not autopilot caused deaths (particularly ones caused by misunderstanding due to marketing material). For example, entry #259 involves a motorbike being hit by a truck and thrown at an autopiloted Tesla that was stopped in traffic. Was there a death? Yes. Was there a Tesla? Yes. Was autopilot enabled? Sure, lets say it was. Did it have anything to do with the accident? No. Was marketing material to blame? No. This kind of shoddy, imprecise thinking is everywhere in discourse and its honestly quite worrying...
m463 4y ago
plenty of information here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Autopilot#NHTSA_investigations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Autopilot#NHTSA_investig... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Autopilot#Notable_crashes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Autopilot#Notable_crashe...

ramesh31 4y ago

>Got a link to a list? There's been 10 just this year: https://fortune.com/2022/10/19/tesla-cars-involved-in-10-of-the-11-new-crash-deaths-linked-to-automated-tech-vehicles/ https://fortune.com/2022/10/19/tesla-cars-involved-in-10-of-...

concordDance 4y ago
That's not the list I've asked for. Those are deaths in car crashes that involved Teslas that were using automated systems. This does not mean the Tesla was at fault (could be other driver or Tesla driver) or that autopilot was involved (the cruise control counts as an automated system) and certainly doesn't mean that system misunderstandings caused by marketing were the cause. I'm fairly sure the grandparent just didn't consider what the sentence constructed was actually saying and was just expressing a dislike of automated car marketing. Unfortunately, people often believe unsourced comments on hackernews to be literally true rather than sentimentally true.
- ShamelessC 4y ago
  > Unfortunately, people often believe unsourced comments on hackernews to be literally true rather than sentimentally true Hi fellow watcher of the impending societal collapse. Glad to know I'm not alone. I have no answers for you but agree that this has gotten significantly worse since 2015 (although such imprecise discourse was inevitable with the creation of social media). In particular this site discourages commenting about "did you read the article?" which is a great rule but does slowly ensure that no one in the comments has any reason to be actually informed, just plausibly informed.

masswerk 4y ago

There's a Google Sheet for this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ESnyJ4b7m96OCjs3GSQ6EGF7YOMuv0XV-ROXTYIazTs/edit#gid=26425775 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ESnyJ4b7m96OCjs3GSQ6...

concordDance 4y ago
While I appreciate the link, it doesn't contain numbers of the sort needed. In particular this is just deaths involving teslas with autopilot enabled, not autopilot caused deaths (particularly ones caused by misunderstanding due to marketing material). For example, entry #259 involves a motorbike being hit by a truck and thrown at an autopiloted Tesla that was stopped in traffic. Was there a death? Yes. Was there a Tesla? Yes. Was autopilot enabled? Sure, lets say it was. Did it have anything to do with the accident? No. Was marketing material to blame? No. This kind of shoddy, imprecise thinking is everywhere in discourse and its honestly quite worrying...

m463 4y ago

plenty of information here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Autopilot#NHTSA_investigations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Autopilot#NHTSA_investig... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Autopilot#Notable_crashes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Autopilot#Notable_crashe...