7 ms·

> Can physical microphones be removed from Apple devices by a repair shop, while still allowing use of wired/wireless headsets? Yes, this is what I do. The mik

> Can physical microphones be removed from Apple devices by a repair shop, while still allowing use of wired/wireless headsets? Yes, this is what I do. The mike is actually still in the laptop but it's disconnected from the motherboard. On a 2021 M1 Macbook pro all you need to do is pop off the back cover and disconnect one cable on the right side of the motherboard. All in all takes about 10 minutes of work.

walterbell 4y ago
Excellent, thanks for the field report.
hoorible 4y ago
There actually is a physical microphone disconnect for new Mac laptops (~2019 and later). When the clamshell is closed, the mic’s connection to the MLB is physically severed. I actually just learned this exists on new iPad models too, with any MFi-compliant case! I know this isn’t strictly relevant, since the vulnerability discussed here is during active use, just thought you might find it interesting. https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/security/secbbd20b00b/web https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/security/secbbd20b00b/...
- judge2020 4y ago
  My only problem is knowing whether it’s on or off - IIRC the indicator next to the camera is indeed a dumb LED wired right into the camera, but the microphone doesn’t have a hardware indicator.
- fsflover 4y ago
  It's not a physical disconnect. More like firmware disconnect. Purism have a physical kill switch for the microphone in their laptop.
  - hoorible 4y ago
    They pretty clearly state the disconnect is “implemented in hardware alone” about three times in the support article, how would that not be a physical implementation?
    - fsflover 4y ago
      What are the physically moving parts in the iPad? How is the T2 connected to the laptop lid, where does the contact breaks? It's pure corporate doublespeak. Especially without schematics, unlike with Purism.
      - reubenmorais 4y ago
        A disconnect doesn't have to move to be implemented in hardware. They describe the implementation in the article linked above: > In each product with a hardware microphone cutoff, one or more lid sensors detect the physical closure of the lid or case using some physical property (for example, a Hall effect sensor or a hinge angle sensor) of the interaction. For sensors where calibration is necessary, parameters are set during production of the device and the calibration process includes a nonreversible hardware lock out of any subsequent changes to sensitive parameters on the sensor. These sensors emit a direct hardware signal that goes through a simple set of nonreprogrammable hardware logic. This logic provides debounce, hysteresis, and/or a delay of up to 500 ms before disabling the microphone. Depending on the product, this signal can be implemented either by disabling the lines transporting data between the microphone and the System on Chip (SoC) or by disabling one of the input lines to the microphone module that’s allowing it to be active—for example, the clock line or a similar effective control.
      - 9935c101ab17a66 4y ago
        This is a strange way to reason about electronics. A processor is a “physically moving part.” Hardware !== clunky obvious tactile contraptions Anyway, I actually have an answer for you, at least for apple portable computers — most new macs come with a sophisticated lid angle sensor used to detect the display angle with high precision. (Previous models used more conventional Hall effect sensors which didn’t live to apples standards for a hardware cut off Why is it importable to know the precise angle of the display in relation to the top case of the computer? Because you can detect when it’s closed with a high degree of confidence! > How is the T2 connected to the laptop lid, where does the contact breaks? So, your comment clearly indicates that you have very little experience with apple products and industrial design and engineer. You also made no effort to look into the matter see if you could find an answer yourself (it took me 4 mins of googling to connect the new LAS to the mic cutoff when computer is closed. So you made a spurious allegation that apple was lying, when pushed on it, you followed up with an even more nonsensical comment that made your lack of hardware experience more obvious. And after all of that, rather than having the self-awareness to drop the matter, or at very least, do some of your own research, you instead decide to sign off by accusing apple of misleading their users. Super weird.
javajosh 4y ago
It's a good idea, but I can imagine how frustrating it would be if someone called and I didn't have my headset. The EV of avoiding that experience seems slightly higher than the EV of avoiding risk of being eavesdropped on by a wayward smartphone process by disabling the internal mic.
- f1refly 4y ago
  > but I can imagine how frustrating it would be if someone called and I didn't have my headset. "Sorry, I don't have a headset right now, we'll have to talk later". It's not that "frustrating", really.
  - walterbell 4y ago
    Indeed, many audio/video calls are preceded by text communication.
  - shivsta 4y ago
    “Why aren’t you able to dial in with just your computer?” “Oh, you know, I’m a bit paranoid about my microphone being hacked so I disconnected the microphone internally. If you give me 10 minutes, I can put it back together real quick” Not the vibe I personally wanna be giving friends and colleagues.
    - walterbell 4y ago
      Some people use headsets to cancel environmental noise, improving the listening experience of friends and colleagues.
    - f1refly 4y ago
      If you are too weak to admit this is important to you, just go the "it's broken" route.

walterbell 4y ago

Excellent, thanks for the field report.

hoorible 4y ago

There actually is a physical microphone disconnect for new Mac laptops (~2019 and later). When the clamshell is closed, the mic’s connection to the MLB is physically severed. I actually just learned this exists on new iPad models too, with any MFi-compliant case! I know this isn’t strictly relevant, since the vulnerability discussed here is during active use, just thought you might find it interesting. https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/security/secbbd20b00b/web https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/security/secbbd20b00b/...

judge2020 4y ago
My only problem is knowing whether it’s on or off - IIRC the indicator next to the camera is indeed a dumb LED wired right into the camera, but the microphone doesn’t have a hardware indicator.
fsflover 4y ago
It's not a physical disconnect. More like firmware disconnect. Purism have a physical kill switch for the microphone in their laptop.
- hoorible 4y ago
  They pretty clearly state the disconnect is “implemented in hardware alone” about three times in the support article, how would that not be a physical implementation?
  - fsflover 4y ago
    What are the physically moving parts in the iPad? How is the T2 connected to the laptop lid, where does the contact breaks? It's pure corporate doublespeak. Especially without schematics, unlike with Purism.
    - reubenmorais 4y ago
      A disconnect doesn't have to move to be implemented in hardware. They describe the implementation in the article linked above: > In each product with a hardware microphone cutoff, one or more lid sensors detect the physical closure of the lid or case using some physical property (for example, a Hall effect sensor or a hinge angle sensor) of the interaction. For sensors where calibration is necessary, parameters are set during production of the device and the calibration process includes a nonreversible hardware lock out of any subsequent changes to sensitive parameters on the sensor. These sensors emit a direct hardware signal that goes through a simple set of nonreprogrammable hardware logic. This logic provides debounce, hysteresis, and/or a delay of up to 500 ms before disabling the microphone. Depending on the product, this signal can be implemented either by disabling the lines transporting data between the microphone and the System on Chip (SoC) or by disabling one of the input lines to the microphone module that’s allowing it to be active—for example, the clock line or a similar effective control.
    - 9935c101ab17a66 4y ago
      This is a strange way to reason about electronics. A processor is a “physically moving part.” Hardware !== clunky obvious tactile contraptions Anyway, I actually have an answer for you, at least for apple portable computers — most new macs come with a sophisticated lid angle sensor used to detect the display angle with high precision. (Previous models used more conventional Hall effect sensors which didn’t live to apples standards for a hardware cut off Why is it importable to know the precise angle of the display in relation to the top case of the computer? Because you can detect when it’s closed with a high degree of confidence! > How is the T2 connected to the laptop lid, where does the contact breaks? So, your comment clearly indicates that you have very little experience with apple products and industrial design and engineer. You also made no effort to look into the matter see if you could find an answer yourself (it took me 4 mins of googling to connect the new LAS to the mic cutoff when computer is closed. So you made a spurious allegation that apple was lying, when pushed on it, you followed up with an even more nonsensical comment that made your lack of hardware experience more obvious. And after all of that, rather than having the self-awareness to drop the matter, or at very least, do some of your own research, you instead decide to sign off by accusing apple of misleading their users. Super weird.

javajosh 4y ago

It's a good idea, but I can imagine how frustrating it would be if someone called and I didn't have my headset. The EV of avoiding that experience seems slightly higher than the EV of avoiding risk of being eavesdropped on by a wayward smartphone process by disabling the internal mic.

f1refly 4y ago
> but I can imagine how frustrating it would be if someone called and I didn't have my headset. "Sorry, I don't have a headset right now, we'll have to talk later". It's not that "frustrating", really.
- walterbell 4y ago
  Indeed, many audio/video calls are preceded by text communication.
- shivsta 4y ago
  “Why aren’t you able to dial in with just your computer?” “Oh, you know, I’m a bit paranoid about my microphone being hacked so I disconnected the microphone internally. If you give me 10 minutes, I can put it back together real quick” Not the vibe I personally wanna be giving friends and colleagues.
  - walterbell 4y ago
    Some people use headsets to cancel environmental noise, improving the listening experience of friends and colleagues.
  - f1refly 4y ago
    If you are too weak to admit this is important to you, just go the "it's broken" route.