6 ms·

I’ll probably get banned for it but I believe transgenderism is a social contagion. It spreads among friend groups of young people quickly due to social pressur

I’ll probably get banned for it but I believe transgenderism is a social contagion. It spreads among friend groups of young people quickly due to social pressures (it seems to me) and the number of people who subscribe to it are rapidly increasing. All this is possibly fine if it weren’t for the fact that it’s self destructive and encourages self mutilation.

BaculumMeumEst 4y ago
Is that opinion based on speaking with transgender people you know personally, or things you read on the internet?
- lampshades 4y ago
  I work in tech, so both.
  - bitwize 4y ago
    You won't be working in tech for long if you keep spreading that bigoted nonsense.
  - hombre_fatal 4y ago
    What do you call a group of trans women? Compiler developers
    - avgcorrection 4y ago
      Why specifically compilers?
      - hombre_fatal 4y ago
        Deeper technical expertise.
gsk22 4y ago
How does this opinion contribute positively to the discussion at hand? It feels like an excuse to just shoehorn in your hot take.
- lampshades 4y ago
  I commented in a comment thread about social contagions. Whether my take is hot or not should be irrelevant.
avgcorrection 4y ago
You’re gonna have to explain this. People want to become the opposite gender because of peer pressure?
- booleandilemma 4y ago
  I've read that obesity is socially contagious, but I've never heard of anyone wanting to be obese.
  - lwansbrough 4y ago
    This one is pretty simple. If you have obese family or friends, you’ll develop habits similar to them subconsciously. Eating more or more frequently, or similar foods, etc. Is it a “contagion”? Well, fast food is yummy and being lazy is easier than being active and fit. So there’s a significant pull if you’re exposed to it a lot.
    - mjevans 4y ago
      It's really hard to get reasonably priced single servings of anything in the US. In food service establishments there at least used to be a push towards value in driving up portion sizes; if nothing else, to differentiate a kids meal from an adults. For items sold in stores it makes more sense to carry one size, or very few sizes, and efficiency pushes towards packages that contain more. As an example; a single frozen pizza that I enjoy the flavor of is only carried in one size. A size reasonable for two adults to split as a large meal, which could be split further to a 'nuclear family' with some sides. Instead I'll gorge on it as my only meal of the day because that's the most effective way for me to maximize the value of that 'best market fit' product (I really detest leftovers).
      - aliqot 4y ago
        > It's really hard to get reasonably priced single servings of anything in the US It's the amount you take in vs the amount you expend. Putting it on your plate doesnt mean you must eat it. I went from morbidly obese to showing abs during covid and while doing almost 0 activity just by watching how the weight of what i ate affected the weight on the scale. McDonalds and Kroger can serve me flintstone's size portions and I'll still be fit because I know that for my daily expenditure I need a certain amount. If I know I'll be expending more, i'll consume more. Am I hungry? Absolutely! But you are free to make the choice to eat when idle, or do other more productive things. Hunger doesn't mean starving and it's hard to train your brain to understand 'no'.
heavyset_go 4y ago
The same thing happened with young people coming out as gay or bi years ago. It wasn't a memetic epidemic, it was people feeling safe to admit and come out about aspects of themselves that weren't socially acceptable in the past. > All this is possibly fine if it weren’t for the fact that it’s self destructive and encourages self mutilation. If you genuinely care about the well-being of children, you should know that the acceptance and support of their identities results in drastically reducing the risk of suicide and mental illness[1]. The science shows that children who are supported in their identities have the same rates of suicide and mental illness as non-trans children: > Socially transitioned transgender children who are supported in their gender identity have developmentally normative levels of depression and only minimal elevations in anxiety, suggesting that psychopathology is not inevitable within this group. Especially striking is the comparison with reports of children with GID; socially transitioned transgender children have notably lower rates of internalizing psychopathology than previously reported among children with GID living as their natal sex. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4771131/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4771131/
- lwansbrough 4y ago
  In a world with perfect data available, I’d like to see the difference in suicide rates between suicidal kids who receive therapy and whose transitions are supported vs. kids who only receive therapy towards non-transitioning. The theory being that a non-zero number of kids seeking to transition are doing it for reasons they don’t fully understand, and helping them get to the root of their trauma may uncover something which steers them away from identifying as transgender. Only because I have heard of people regretting their transition.
  - heavyset_go 4y ago
    People said the same thing about gay youths years ago, down to the "trauma made them gay" and trying to send kids to sexuality non-affirming reparative therapy to fix their brains. I'd imagine that this plan would work as well as conversion therapy does. It's worth noting that every major medical association in the United States has come out in favor of affirming a youth's sexual orientation and gender identity and against the practice of conversion therapy. This list includes: > American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry; American Academy of Nursing; American Academy of Pediatrics; American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy; American College of Physicians; American Counseling Association; American Medical Association; American Osteopathic Association; American Psychiatric Association; American Psychoanalytic Association; American Psychological Association; National Association of Social Workers.
educaysean 4y ago
I think this is a backwards take. The social stigma against those not conforming to the assigned gender norms has been entrenched in our culture. We've been getting better in recent years - the number of fathers who beat their boys for picking out a pink shirt is dwindling, and as a society more of us are willing to entertain the idea that gender is a social construct that has no innate definition. It's very natural that in an environment more accepting of transgenderism, that more people will feel empowered to explore the idea and question what it could potentially mean for themselves. The appearance that a group that has accepted a single transgender person will somehow "begat" more transgender people seems pretty natural through this view, and seems much more scientific than the idea that transgenderism has some mysterious power to corrupt an otherwise cis-oriented person. Thailand is one example of a society that has had years of history and experience welcoming trans people. I'd be interested to see how your "social contagion" theory would fare there.
- bobsmooth 4y ago
  Teens like to follow trends, simple as that.
est31 4y ago
People even before they come out as transgender or realize what they are tend to cluster together due to personality similarities. So you have friend groups where the transgender quotient is really high, whether they know it yet or not. Once one of the eggs cracks in a friend group, it definitely might cause an avalanche, but it doesn't mean that it's peer pressure, it's just that nobody wants to be the first or realizes yet that this is an option. As for self destructiveness and self mutilation... is something that people should decide for themselves what medical changes of their bodies they consider mutilation vs which ones they consider improvements. Some people get tattoos and they really like them. That is fine. I would consider one on mine a mutilation of my beautiful body. So the way you put it is quite insulting. Many transgender people wake up every day as if their bodies have been mutilated the day before: that's what they want to correct. It's a phenomenon I have no relationship with other than hearing it from other people, but I've seen it so many times.
- clcaev 4y ago
  Children who self-mutilate (cutting, etc.) often do so as a way to break a dissociative phase: the feeling of complete numbness that washes so completely over them, causing them to wonder if they even exist.
clcaev 4y ago
> I believe that transgenderism is a social contagion. From the 20s though the 40s, people who reported as being left handed went from 5 to 12% and it has lingered above 10% since. Is being left handed a social contagion? Or did it become more socially acceptable, and fewer had to hide it? > It spreads among friend groups People often choose their friends among those who see the world in a similar way. Friendship circles are not formed though random selection. When one in a given friend circle comes out as gender queer, is it truly a surprise that others in that same group also come out? > fine if it weren't for the fact that it's self destructive and encourages self-mutilation What exactly are you referring to?

BaculumMeumEst 4y ago

Is that opinion based on speaking with transgender people you know personally, or things you read on the internet?

lampshades 4y ago
I work in tech, so both.
- bitwize 4y ago
  You won't be working in tech for long if you keep spreading that bigoted nonsense.
- hombre_fatal 4y ago
  What do you call a group of trans women? Compiler developers
  - avgcorrection 4y ago
    Why specifically compilers?
    - hombre_fatal 4y ago
      Deeper technical expertise.

gsk22 4y ago

How does this opinion contribute positively to the discussion at hand? It feels like an excuse to just shoehorn in your hot take.

lampshades 4y ago
I commented in a comment thread about social contagions. Whether my take is hot or not should be irrelevant.

avgcorrection 4y ago

You’re gonna have to explain this. People want to become the opposite gender because of peer pressure?

booleandilemma 4y ago
I've read that obesity is socially contagious, but I've never heard of anyone wanting to be obese.
- lwansbrough 4y ago
  This one is pretty simple. If you have obese family or friends, you’ll develop habits similar to them subconsciously. Eating more or more frequently, or similar foods, etc. Is it a “contagion”? Well, fast food is yummy and being lazy is easier than being active and fit. So there’s a significant pull if you’re exposed to it a lot.
  - mjevans 4y ago
    It's really hard to get reasonably priced single servings of anything in the US. In food service establishments there at least used to be a push towards value in driving up portion sizes; if nothing else, to differentiate a kids meal from an adults. For items sold in stores it makes more sense to carry one size, or very few sizes, and efficiency pushes towards packages that contain more. As an example; a single frozen pizza that I enjoy the flavor of is only carried in one size. A size reasonable for two adults to split as a large meal, which could be split further to a 'nuclear family' with some sides. Instead I'll gorge on it as my only meal of the day because that's the most effective way for me to maximize the value of that 'best market fit' product (I really detest leftovers).
    - aliqot 4y ago
      > It's really hard to get reasonably priced single servings of anything in the US It's the amount you take in vs the amount you expend. Putting it on your plate doesnt mean you must eat it. I went from morbidly obese to showing abs during covid and while doing almost 0 activity just by watching how the weight of what i ate affected the weight on the scale. McDonalds and Kroger can serve me flintstone's size portions and I'll still be fit because I know that for my daily expenditure I need a certain amount. If I know I'll be expending more, i'll consume more. Am I hungry? Absolutely! But you are free to make the choice to eat when idle, or do other more productive things. Hunger doesn't mean starving and it's hard to train your brain to understand 'no'.

heavyset_go 4y ago

The same thing happened with young people coming out as gay or bi years ago. It wasn't a memetic epidemic, it was people feeling safe to admit and come out about aspects of themselves that weren't socially acceptable in the past. > All this is possibly fine if it weren’t for the fact that it’s self destructive and encourages self mutilation. If you genuinely care about the well-being of children, you should know that the acceptance and support of their identities results in drastically reducing the risk of suicide and mental illness[1]. The science shows that children who are supported in their identities have the same rates of suicide and mental illness as non-trans children: > Socially transitioned transgender children who are supported in their gender identity have developmentally normative levels of depression and only minimal elevations in anxiety, suggesting that psychopathology is not inevitable within this group. Especially striking is the comparison with reports of children with GID; socially transitioned transgender children have notably lower rates of internalizing psychopathology than previously reported among children with GID living as their natal sex. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4771131/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4771131/

lwansbrough 4y ago
In a world with perfect data available, I’d like to see the difference in suicide rates between suicidal kids who receive therapy and whose transitions are supported vs. kids who only receive therapy towards non-transitioning. The theory being that a non-zero number of kids seeking to transition are doing it for reasons they don’t fully understand, and helping them get to the root of their trauma may uncover something which steers them away from identifying as transgender. Only because I have heard of people regretting their transition.
- heavyset_go 4y ago
  People said the same thing about gay youths years ago, down to the "trauma made them gay" and trying to send kids to sexuality non-affirming reparative therapy to fix their brains. I'd imagine that this plan would work as well as conversion therapy does. It's worth noting that every major medical association in the United States has come out in favor of affirming a youth's sexual orientation and gender identity and against the practice of conversion therapy. This list includes: > American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry; American Academy of Nursing; American Academy of Pediatrics; American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy; American College of Physicians; American Counseling Association; American Medical Association; American Osteopathic Association; American Psychiatric Association; American Psychoanalytic Association; American Psychological Association; National Association of Social Workers.

educaysean 4y ago

I think this is a backwards take. The social stigma against those not conforming to the assigned gender norms has been entrenched in our culture. We've been getting better in recent years - the number of fathers who beat their boys for picking out a pink shirt is dwindling, and as a society more of us are willing to entertain the idea that gender is a social construct that has no innate definition. It's very natural that in an environment more accepting of transgenderism, that more people will feel empowered to explore the idea and question what it could potentially mean for themselves. The appearance that a group that has accepted a single transgender person will somehow "begat" more transgender people seems pretty natural through this view, and seems much more scientific than the idea that transgenderism has some mysterious power to corrupt an otherwise cis-oriented person. Thailand is one example of a society that has had years of history and experience welcoming trans people. I'd be interested to see how your "social contagion" theory would fare there.

bobsmooth 4y ago
Teens like to follow trends, simple as that.

est31 4y ago

People even before they come out as transgender or realize what they are tend to cluster together due to personality similarities. So you have friend groups where the transgender quotient is really high, whether they know it yet or not. Once one of the eggs cracks in a friend group, it definitely might cause an avalanche, but it doesn't mean that it's peer pressure, it's just that nobody wants to be the first or realizes yet that this is an option. As for self destructiveness and self mutilation... is something that people should decide for themselves what medical changes of their bodies they consider mutilation vs which ones they consider improvements. Some people get tattoos and they really like them. That is fine. I would consider one on mine a mutilation of my beautiful body. So the way you put it is quite insulting. Many transgender people wake up every day as if their bodies have been mutilated the day before: that's what they want to correct. It's a phenomenon I have no relationship with other than hearing it from other people, but I've seen it so many times.

clcaev 4y ago
Children who self-mutilate (cutting, etc.) often do so as a way to break a dissociative phase: the feeling of complete numbness that washes so completely over them, causing them to wonder if they even exist.

clcaev 4y ago

> I believe that transgenderism is a social contagion. From the 20s though the 40s, people who reported as being left handed went from 5 to 12% and it has lingered above 10% since. Is being left handed a social contagion? Or did it become more socially acceptable, and fewer had to hide it? > It spreads among friend groups People often choose their friends among those who see the world in a similar way. Friendship circles are not formed though random selection. When one in a given friend circle comes out as gender queer, is it truly a surprise that others in that same group also come out? > fine if it weren't for the fact that it's self destructive and encourages self-mutilation What exactly are you referring to?