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I consider myself a patriotic American, but I don't know that the government even follows the Constitution in the first place. NSA has been hoovering up data o

I consider myself a patriotic American, but I don't know that the government even follows the Constitution in the first place. NSA has been hoovering up data of innocent Americans, and the IC in general, works with foreign ICs, to target Americans without reasonable cause, just blanket vacuuming. Much of the govt, including federal, state, and local, has been purchasing private data without a warrant signed by a judge. Or they tap incoming fiber. Am expecting the next shoe to drop around traffic buying, not just location, without a warrant. Civil forfeiture is rife, violating the 5th and 14th. It is mainly targeting minorities Likewise, traffic cameras proliferation, mainly targeting minorities. US Govt, state govts are actively pressuring BigTech to censor, causing them to become state "actors", and "agents of the State" themselves We're coming off multiple scandals of govt employees criminally pursuing regionally unpopular politicos and their allies, but escaping sanction through regionalized trials Large govt decrees ended rent collection, closed businesses, and did untold damage to the US. I can understand this, but not the lack of compensation to all the landlords that have been ruined by this. The problem we have is, the US Constitution isn't being followed in the first place.

prottog 4y ago
Indeed, why bother amending something that isn't being adhered to in the first place.
hotpotamus 4y ago
> The problem we have is, the US Constitution isn't being followed in the first place. I hear this pretty frequently and often and I wonder, perhaps the constitution is inadequate to the task of governing the US in the 21st century? It seems like no one can agree on what it means - I'm told that we need highly educated legal scholars to properly interpret it before the Supreme Court, but there seems to be less consensus on it than there was in previous centuries.
sokoloff 4y ago
Yes, it might not need to be re-written so much as it needs to be re-read.
- OrvalWintermute 4y ago
  You wrote something much better than I I wonder if general knowledge of civics and an understanding of the US Constitution has escaped from much of school?
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    (I can’t claim original authorship on the previous.) For the high school civics question, I got a lot of exposure to the what, but none of the why really landed for me until much later. It’s far easier to test that I can regurgitate facts about three branches, a bicameral legislature, the amendment process, the Bill of Rights, 13/14/15, 18/21, but far harder to test my grasp of balancing the will of the slim majority vs the freedom of the slim minority. Further, middle and high schoolers don’t have fully developed brains nor the life experience of making hard decisions and needing a framework when a far-reaching decision must be made but no decision will leave everyone happy. I may have learned more about the why of the Constitution in a college philosophy class on liberty and justice than I did in middle/high school civics.
advisedwang 4y ago
In reality the US Constitution [as practiced] = US Constitution [the words] + Supreme court decisions + Legislature rules + enforcement + de facto practice/assumptions*. This article focuses just on the first, but we can tackle the others too Supreme court decisions -> discussions of court reform Legislature rules -> e.g. discussions of ending filibuster Enforcement -> Reducing secrecy in government (most places where the US government is just outright ignoring the constitution depends on secrecy) de facto practice -> all this hand-wringing about "norm breaking" really boils down to some assumptions. We don't have a well developed conversation here, but generally these things should be codified.
rascul 4y ago
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it." -- Lysander Spooner (I think)

prottog 4y ago

Indeed, why bother amending something that isn't being adhered to in the first place.

hotpotamus 4y ago

> The problem we have is, the US Constitution isn't being followed in the first place. I hear this pretty frequently and often and I wonder, perhaps the constitution is inadequate to the task of governing the US in the 21st century? It seems like no one can agree on what it means - I'm told that we need highly educated legal scholars to properly interpret it before the Supreme Court, but there seems to be less consensus on it than there was in previous centuries.

sokoloff 4y ago

Yes, it might not need to be re-written so much as it needs to be re-read.

OrvalWintermute 4y ago
You wrote something much better than I I wonder if general knowledge of civics and an understanding of the US Constitution has escaped from much of school?
- sokoloff 4y ago
  (I can’t claim original authorship on the previous.) For the high school civics question, I got a lot of exposure to the what, but none of the why really landed for me until much later. It’s far easier to test that I can regurgitate facts about three branches, a bicameral legislature, the amendment process, the Bill of Rights, 13/14/15, 18/21, but far harder to test my grasp of balancing the will of the slim majority vs the freedom of the slim minority. Further, middle and high schoolers don’t have fully developed brains nor the life experience of making hard decisions and needing a framework when a far-reaching decision must be made but no decision will leave everyone happy. I may have learned more about the why of the Constitution in a college philosophy class on liberty and justice than I did in middle/high school civics.

advisedwang 4y ago

In reality the US Constitution [as practiced] = US Constitution [the words] + Supreme court decisions + Legislature rules + enforcement + de facto practice/assumptions*. This article focuses just on the first, but we can tackle the others too Supreme court decisions -> discussions of court reform Legislature rules -> e.g. discussions of ending filibuster Enforcement -> Reducing secrecy in government (most places where the US government is just outright ignoring the constitution depends on secrecy) de facto practice -> all this hand-wringing about "norm breaking" really boils down to some assumptions. We don't have a well developed conversation here, but generally these things should be codified.

rascul 4y ago

"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it." -- Lysander Spooner (I think)