5 ms·

I think the Founding Fathers pictured the government as being democrats and republicans versus problems, not democrats versus republicans.

by nikanj 4y ago

advisedwang 4y ago
They didn't even intend for a party system to take hold
- zerocrates 4y ago
  Famously the original presidential election rules don't really work in the face of partisanship and President-VP tickets and they quickly were replaced.
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > Famously the original presidential election rules don't really work in the face of partisanship and President-VP tickets and they quickly were replaced. Arguably, the main problem with the original rules was bullet voting in the electoral college; if they voted with preference ballots with winner elimination, instead of bullet ballots, having the second place be the VP would work well, and produce less incumbent protection even with an equally strong party system than the actual replacement system of separate election, which produced President-VP tickets.
    - zerocrates 4y ago
      The 12th Amendment enshrined tickets, certainly, but they were already present by the election of 1800.
BitwiseFool 4y ago
I remember reading about "factions" in the Federalist papers and I have a feeling that the Founding Fathers knew such partisanship was bound to arise. And indeed, it arose very early during George Washington's presidency. I don't think the development of political parties would have caught them by surprise, especially because many of them wound up joining them as time went on.
- tastyfreeze 4y ago
  Federalist 10 describes factions as the nature of man, explains why they don't belong in government, and describes how the Constitution limits the sway of factions. But, the Founding Fathers never envisioned it would be possible to coordinated across a continent in real time. Rapid communication allows factions/parties to have continental spread. https://guides.loc.gov/federalist-papers/text-1-10#s-lg-box-wrapper-25493273 https://guides.loc.gov/federalist-papers/text-1-10#s-lg-box-...
  - pdonis 4y ago
    > Federalist 10 describes factions as the nature of man, explains why they don't belong in government, and describes how the Constitution limits the sway of factions. Unfortunately, its claims in this regard were proven false not much more than a decade after it was published. *> the Founding Fathers never envisioned it would be possible to coordinated across a continent in real time. This would be a valid argument if factions did not become central to US politics until rapid communication became available. But that's not the case. Factions were already central to US politics by 1800, when the fastest mode of communication was horseback.
CalChris 4y ago
The Founding Fathers wrote a republican constitution and knew for a fact that as a direct consequence of the republican structure that there would be factions. That was the point of Ben Franklin's quote: a republic, if you can keep it

I think the Founding Fathers pictured the government as being democrats and republicans versus problems, not democrats versus republicans.

by nikanj 4y ago

I think the Founding Fathers pictured the government as being democrats and republicans versus problems, not democrats versus republicans.

advisedwang 4y ago

They didn't even intend for a party system to take hold

zerocrates 4y ago
Famously the original presidential election rules don't really work in the face of partisanship and President-VP tickets and they quickly were replaced.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > Famously the original presidential election rules don't really work in the face of partisanship and President-VP tickets and they quickly were replaced. Arguably, the main problem with the original rules was bullet voting in the electoral college; if they voted with preference ballots with winner elimination, instead of bullet ballots, having the second place be the VP would work well, and produce less incumbent protection even with an equally strong party system than the actual replacement system of separate election, which produced President-VP tickets.
  - zerocrates 4y ago
    The 12th Amendment enshrined tickets, certainly, but they were already present by the election of 1800.

BitwiseFool 4y ago

I remember reading about "factions" in the Federalist papers and I have a feeling that the Founding Fathers knew such partisanship was bound to arise. And indeed, it arose very early during George Washington's presidency. I don't think the development of political parties would have caught them by surprise, especially because many of them wound up joining them as time went on.

tastyfreeze 4y ago
Federalist 10 describes factions as the nature of man, explains why they don't belong in government, and describes how the Constitution limits the sway of factions. But, the Founding Fathers never envisioned it would be possible to coordinated across a continent in real time. Rapid communication allows factions/parties to have continental spread. https://guides.loc.gov/federalist-papers/text-1-10#s-lg-box-wrapper-25493273 https://guides.loc.gov/federalist-papers/text-1-10#s-lg-box-...
- pdonis 4y ago
  > Federalist 10 describes factions as the nature of man, explains why they don't belong in government, and describes how the Constitution limits the sway of factions. Unfortunately, its claims in this regard were proven false not much more than a decade after it was published. *> the Founding Fathers never envisioned it would be possible to coordinated across a continent in real time. This would be a valid argument if factions did not become central to US politics until rapid communication became available. But that's not the case. Factions were already central to US politics by 1800, when the fastest mode of communication was horseback.

CalChris 4y ago

The Founding Fathers wrote a republican constitution and knew for a fact that as a direct consequence of the republican structure that there would be factions. That was the point of Ben Franklin's quote: a republic, if you can keep it