3 ms·

there's one quote in Ben Thompson's recent Meta article that I really buy. If you look from this angle many Meta's moves make sense > What is clear is that Zuc

by mi_lk 4y ago

there's one quote in Ben Thompson's recent Meta article that I really buy. If you look from this angle many Meta's moves make sense > What is clear is that Zuckerberg in particular seems more committed to VR than ever. It may be the case that he is seen as the founding father of the Metaverse, even as Meta is a potential casualty. https://stratechery.com/2022/meta-meets-microsoft/ https://stratechery.com/2022/meta-meets-microsoft/

r00fus 4y ago
So Zuck is bought into metaverse, but can they transition? My guess is this is going to be a really rough winter / several quarters for Facebook until they reconsider.
- munk-a 4y ago
  They're throwing loads of technical resources at that - so they should be able to build it - but the problem is the "and they will come part". VR Gaming is awesome, BeatSaber is a wonderful game to engage in... for about an hour or so max - you'll want to shift gears and get your head out of the headset just to relax your eyes. Zuckerberg seems to envision matrix-style VR where it's 24/7 immersive and nobody outside a very small fringe group is at all interested in that proposition. I just fail to see the value proposition of VR socialization over video and even voice calls. If you'll recall even video calls have only really caught on since the pandemic - skype did business pre-pandemic, but it was still a fringe tool for social purposes and much more likely to see use in a work setting. It might be that VR can break into the workplace - but I have my skepticism.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - chrischen 4y ago
    I don’t fully understand what the metaverse plans are, but if you look at the design of the quest pro that just released then what you say is not true. It’s an AR first device that doesn’t even come with full light blockers that make it usable as a fully immersed VR device. I agree with you VR is not the future but AR definitely is, and even Apple has been making silent but consistent investments in AR for more than the past 5 years.
    - echelon 4y ago
      > I agree with you VR is not the future but AR definitely is. It's interesting to see the differences of opinions on this subject. I believe this will pan out in the opposite direction. As a consumer, AR seems so weird to me. I don't want to put on glasses or goggles to see overlays of the world around me. I want interfaces to be simpler, not more complicated and crowded. While AR hardware has improved, the software remains reminiscent of Nintendo DS Face Raiders [1]. I'm just not being sold on a day to day use case for the tech. Maybe Apple or Meta will teach us otherwise, but I can't even imagine it at this point. I do see AR being useful for a limited number of industrial applications. You already see quasi-AR virtual film cameras working well (cameras without a lens that capture xyz-orientation in virtual space for the purpose of pointing a virtual camera). But these don't even use optical overlays. On the other hand, VR enables infinite workspaces, telepresence, new kinds of 3D creative tools that place you inside the thing you're building, world isolation, closer to full sensory immersion, etc. Rather than a tool that serves as an overlay of the existing world, it puts you into a new type of cognitive body altogether. Metaphors of movement combined with spatial reasoning can unlock new abilities for the human brain. Like gestures, but full body and mind. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh-YrWvdUCs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh-YrWvdUCs
      - chrischen 4y ago
        Your frame of reference is based on existing implementations, but existing implementations are by definition ones which have not solved your concerns. You are looking at AR from the lens of today's optics, rather than looking at where technology is going to lead us. Will you use AR if it's light and comfortable enough? I mean, even the giant bricks of laptops and cell phones initially had users, and eventually as they got smaller they gained even more users. You can already see the advancement of AR software by holding up your iphone and trying out the various AR features that overlay things in the real world and can even use the depth sensor to occlude your hand. Or try out Google maps AR view which literally does a video game style overlay of the path you need to take over the actual world. Maybe you don't like these things, but I think they are objectively cool, and right now only held back by a lack of hardware to make it convenient to do AR in every day scenearios (lightweight glasses or goggles). But, Apple is working on that, and so is Meta, and since technology advances by Moore's law it's only a matter of time before the glasses get light enough and comfortable enough that we don't have to hold up our phones awkwardly in front of our faces to do AR. Things that AR can accomplish: 1) Overlaying peoples' names so I don't have to remember so many names. Not a problem for many people but some people have a hard time remembering names. 2) Always there real world overlay of directions so you don't have to keep pulling out your phone. 3) AR games and entertainment 4) No need for giant physical 2 dimensional information displays in the real world. Once AR gets sufficiently clear and high enough resolution there is literally no need for physical displays... only virtual ones. The whole point of physical displays since inception is to show information, sometimes 3D information, on a 2D surface. We've been trying to make them smaller and smaller ever since... what better size than no size at all. 4) The whole point of any digital display is to augment our eyes with information. The ultimate display is one that is right in front of your eyes. AR is the next logical step for digital displays.
  - urthor 4y ago
    The problem to me is that Meta is not pursuing the "Web 2.0 concept." Anyone who knows the digital gaming industry understands. Content is hard. The Metaverse seems like it has Zuc supplying a vast amount of first party content, instead of integrating with third parties better to supply skins and content.
victor106 4y ago
The thing with the transition to Meta is the ability to marry hardware and software together which super critical for VR to click. There’s really only one company in the world that’s able to do that better than anyone else. You guys know which company that is. So it’s very very hard for them to be as successful in that space
- jaxn 4y ago
  It's not an impossible playbook to follow. Tesla and Square are doing a pretty good job of it.
  - GoOnThenDoTell 4y ago
    Tesla’s not near the level of Apple. The physical product creaks and groans, and the software UI is android level. Tesla just has the convenience of competing with luddites
    - jaxn 4y ago
      I disagree. And I drive one everyday.
      - GoOnThenDoTell 4y ago
        I also drive one everyday.
    - drevil-v2 4y ago
      I think you are wrong. The software is miles ahead of competition in polish. And the cars that coming from Giga Shanghai are just as good as any other manufacturer - just read reviews in New Zealand.
- throw_nbvc1234 4y ago
  2nd best of two giants still a decent place to be. See iOS vs Android.

by mi_lk 4y ago

r00fus 4y ago

So Zuck is bought into metaverse, but can they transition? My guess is this is going to be a really rough winter / several quarters for Facebook until they reconsider.

munk-a 4y ago
They're throwing loads of technical resources at that - so they should be able to build it - but the problem is the "and they will come part". VR Gaming is awesome, BeatSaber is a wonderful game to engage in... for about an hour or so max - you'll want to shift gears and get your head out of the headset just to relax your eyes. Zuckerberg seems to envision matrix-style VR where it's 24/7 immersive and nobody outside a very small fringe group is at all interested in that proposition. I just fail to see the value proposition of VR socialization over video and even voice calls. If you'll recall even video calls have only really caught on since the pandemic - skype did business pre-pandemic, but it was still a fringe tool for social purposes and much more likely to see use in a work setting. It might be that VR can break into the workplace - but I have my skepticism.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- chrischen 4y ago
  I don’t fully understand what the metaverse plans are, but if you look at the design of the quest pro that just released then what you say is not true. It’s an AR first device that doesn’t even come with full light blockers that make it usable as a fully immersed VR device. I agree with you VR is not the future but AR definitely is, and even Apple has been making silent but consistent investments in AR for more than the past 5 years.
  - echelon 4y ago
    > I agree with you VR is not the future but AR definitely is. It's interesting to see the differences of opinions on this subject. I believe this will pan out in the opposite direction. As a consumer, AR seems so weird to me. I don't want to put on glasses or goggles to see overlays of the world around me. I want interfaces to be simpler, not more complicated and crowded. While AR hardware has improved, the software remains reminiscent of Nintendo DS Face Raiders [1]. I'm just not being sold on a day to day use case for the tech. Maybe Apple or Meta will teach us otherwise, but I can't even imagine it at this point. I do see AR being useful for a limited number of industrial applications. You already see quasi-AR virtual film cameras working well (cameras without a lens that capture xyz-orientation in virtual space for the purpose of pointing a virtual camera). But these don't even use optical overlays. On the other hand, VR enables infinite workspaces, telepresence, new kinds of 3D creative tools that place you inside the thing you're building, world isolation, closer to full sensory immersion, etc. Rather than a tool that serves as an overlay of the existing world, it puts you into a new type of cognitive body altogether. Metaphors of movement combined with spatial reasoning can unlock new abilities for the human brain. Like gestures, but full body and mind. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh-YrWvdUCs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh-YrWvdUCs
    - chrischen 4y ago
      Your frame of reference is based on existing implementations, but existing implementations are by definition ones which have not solved your concerns. You are looking at AR from the lens of today's optics, rather than looking at where technology is going to lead us. Will you use AR if it's light and comfortable enough? I mean, even the giant bricks of laptops and cell phones initially had users, and eventually as they got smaller they gained even more users. You can already see the advancement of AR software by holding up your iphone and trying out the various AR features that overlay things in the real world and can even use the depth sensor to occlude your hand. Or try out Google maps AR view which literally does a video game style overlay of the path you need to take over the actual world. Maybe you don't like these things, but I think they are objectively cool, and right now only held back by a lack of hardware to make it convenient to do AR in every day scenearios (lightweight glasses or goggles). But, Apple is working on that, and so is Meta, and since technology advances by Moore's law it's only a matter of time before the glasses get light enough and comfortable enough that we don't have to hold up our phones awkwardly in front of our faces to do AR. Things that AR can accomplish: 1) Overlaying peoples' names so I don't have to remember so many names. Not a problem for many people but some people have a hard time remembering names. 2) Always there real world overlay of directions so you don't have to keep pulling out your phone. 3) AR games and entertainment 4) No need for giant physical 2 dimensional information displays in the real world. Once AR gets sufficiently clear and high enough resolution there is literally no need for physical displays... only virtual ones. The whole point of physical displays since inception is to show information, sometimes 3D information, on a 2D surface. We've been trying to make them smaller and smaller ever since... what better size than no size at all. 4) The whole point of any digital display is to augment our eyes with information. The ultimate display is one that is right in front of your eyes. AR is the next logical step for digital displays.
- urthor 4y ago
  The problem to me is that Meta is not pursuing the "Web 2.0 concept." Anyone who knows the digital gaming industry understands. Content is hard. The Metaverse seems like it has Zuc supplying a vast amount of first party content, instead of integrating with third parties better to supply skins and content.

victor106 4y ago

The thing with the transition to Meta is the ability to marry hardware and software together which super critical for VR to click. There’s really only one company in the world that’s able to do that better than anyone else. You guys know which company that is. So it’s very very hard for them to be as successful in that space

jaxn 4y ago
It's not an impossible playbook to follow. Tesla and Square are doing a pretty good job of it.
- GoOnThenDoTell 4y ago
  Tesla’s not near the level of Apple. The physical product creaks and groans, and the software UI is android level. Tesla just has the convenience of competing with luddites
  - jaxn 4y ago
    I disagree. And I drive one everyday.
    - GoOnThenDoTell 4y ago
      I also drive one everyday.
  - drevil-v2 4y ago
    I think you are wrong. The software is miles ahead of competition in polish. And the cars that coming from Giga Shanghai are just as good as any other manufacturer - just read reviews in New Zealand.
throw_nbvc1234 4y ago
2nd best of two giants still a decent place to be. See iOS vs Android.