4 ms·

See my comment upthread. If you accept a preorder you must offer a firm delivery date. If you cannot make that date, your only option under the law is a refund.

by mike_d 4y ago

See my comment upthread. If you accept a preorder you must offer a firm delivery date. If you cannot make that date, your only option under the law is a refund. You can't push the date back.

filoleg 4y ago
How do Kickstarter and early access games sold on Steam function in that magic universe where "if you accept a preorder, you must offer a firm delivery date"? As far as I can tell, there aren't droves of Kickstarter campaigns that keep getting sued or prosecuted on regular just for perpetually delaying their delivery dates (often for years).
- klyrs 4y ago
  Are these non-released steam games killing people?
  - filoleg 4y ago
    They don't, just like the non-released FSD doesn't, because it isn't available yet. The original claim I replied to was talking about the possibility of Tesla getting sued for delaying multiple times the release of a product that's in active development (and thus being unavailable). I don't see how the discussion about a product that the public has no access to "killing people" is relevant at all.
- wilg 4y ago
  > Are these non-released steam games killing people? This isn't relevant to the law! But also by the same argument how is a non-released self-driving product killing people?
- mike_d 4y ago
  Kickstarter and other crowdfunding platforms are framed as donations. Steam Early Access allows you to request a full refund at any point up until the actual launch of the game (and then 14 days after based on the standard refund policy), even if you have played it extensively.
- wilg 4y ago
  > Kickstarter and other crowdfunding platforms are framed as donations. I don't see any evidence of this on the Kickstarter website. > Steam Early Access allows you to request a full refund at any point up until the actual launch of the game This is not true. They are considered normal purchases.
  - mike_d 4y ago
    Look closer, you'll see it says "Pledge" instead of "Buy Now" or similar language. You also receive a "Reward" if the project is successful. https://store.steampowered.com/steam_refunds/ https://store.steampowered.com/steam_refunds/ You may need to go back and forth with support to get a refund, but Early Access is ultimately covered under the pre-purchase terms.
    - wilg 4y ago
      I think you're misinterpreting "you can request a refund at any time prior to release" – the release date is the date it comes out on Early Access, not any potential 1.0. And re: kickstarter, I think "pledge" is in relation to the fact that you don't have to pay unless the project gets over it's goal. I remain very skeptical that pre-orders are as legally shaky as you claim.

by mike_d 4y ago

See my comment upthread. If you accept a preorder you must offer a firm delivery date. If you cannot make that date, your only option under the law is a refund. You can't push the date back.

filoleg 4y ago

How do Kickstarter and early access games sold on Steam function in that magic universe where "if you accept a preorder, you must offer a firm delivery date"? As far as I can tell, there aren't droves of Kickstarter campaigns that keep getting sued or prosecuted on regular just for perpetually delaying their delivery dates (often for years).

klyrs 4y ago
Are these non-released steam games killing people?
- filoleg 4y ago
  They don't, just like the non-released FSD doesn't, because it isn't available yet. The original claim I replied to was talking about the possibility of Tesla getting sued for delaying multiple times the release of a product that's in active development (and thus being unavailable). I don't see how the discussion about a product that the public has no access to "killing people" is relevant at all.
wilg 4y ago
> Are these non-released steam games killing people? This isn't relevant to the law! But also by the same argument how is a non-released self-driving product killing people?
mike_d 4y ago
Kickstarter and other crowdfunding platforms are framed as donations. Steam Early Access allows you to request a full refund at any point up until the actual launch of the game (and then 14 days after based on the standard refund policy), even if you have played it extensively.
wilg 4y ago
> Kickstarter and other crowdfunding platforms are framed as donations. I don't see any evidence of this on the Kickstarter website. > Steam Early Access allows you to request a full refund at any point up until the actual launch of the game This is not true. They are considered normal purchases.
- mike_d 4y ago
  Look closer, you'll see it says "Pledge" instead of "Buy Now" or similar language. You also receive a "Reward" if the project is successful. https://store.steampowered.com/steam_refunds/ https://store.steampowered.com/steam_refunds/ You may need to go back and forth with support to get a refund, but Early Access is ultimately covered under the pre-purchase terms.
  - wilg 4y ago
    I think you're misinterpreting "you can request a refund at any time prior to release" – the release date is the date it comes out on Early Access, not any potential 1.0. And re: kickstarter, I think "pledge" is in relation to the fact that you don't have to pay unless the project gets over it's goal. I remain very skeptical that pre-orders are as legally shaky as you claim.