4 ms·

I think local retailers are given "special treatment" in that they don't have to add a shipping cost on top of the item price. Yeah, those lucky retailers get

I think local retailers are given "special treatment" in that they don't have to add a shipping cost on top of the item price. Yeah, those lucky retailers get to blow off the shipping cost just because they aren't shipping anything. But they do have to pay a fee just for the privilege of doing business, and Amazon gets to do business without paying that fee. And now Amazon is using their dusty old brick and mortar stores as a showroom. I can see why the local retailers are feeling jilted.

Terretta 15y ago
No, they don't pay a fee. You pay a fee for making a purchase. Local retailers should be arguing that they don't want to be the tax collectors, so their prices would look lower too. Either way, you, the buyer, are responsible for paying the sales and use tax, regardless of whether you bought from BestBuy or Amazon. Again, both BestBuy and Amazon "get to do business without paying that fee", as it's not something either of them pays. To enjoy the competitive advantage of having a local presence, BestBuy does agree to help your local government collect your taxes (and in fact gets to KEEP a percentage of the taxes they collect!), while Amazon, who is not in your local jurisdiction, relies on you to pay the tax you owe.
- storborg 15y ago
  So I assume you willfully pay your tax on all online purchases?
  - rdtsc 15y ago
    My state had line item on the tax form asking for the amount of goods purchased online so then they can tax them. Always wondered what people put in there and if the state even did anything about it (audited people). I guess they could ask Amazon for records (threatening a lawsuit) and cross-reference with all the reported taxes based on name and address. If user bought just from Amazon more than what they reported they they have obviously owe some money + fines & late fees. (But I suppose I am making gross assumptions about the competence and general technical abilities of my state's tax collecting office).
    - Terretta 15y ago
      > could ask Amazon for records (threatening a lawsuit) http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/10/judge-blocks-north-carolina-attempt-to-get-amazon-sales-data.ars http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/10/judge-blocks...
      - rdtsc 15y ago
        Oh wow. I was thinking of a different state, but this is interesting. It already happened and I missed it. First it was anonymous purchase data. Then NC demanded user names and addresses but Amazon fought on 1st Amendment grounds and seems to have won: “The First Amendment protects a buyer from having the expressive content of her purchase of books, music, and audiovisual materials disclosed to the government,” I wonder if this was Zappos for example. What would have been the ruling.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- extension 15y ago
  Local retailers should be arguing that they don't want to be the tax collectors, so their prices would look lower too. That seems to me to be what they are arguing. However you want to look at it, the government is forcing them to force their customers to pay more, and not forcing Amazon to do the same, for no justifiable reason.
ugh 15y ago
Do you really think that matters? Amazon seems to be doing really well (and retailers not so much) even in countries where all retailers have to collect VAT (like Germany). Online shopping is just more convenient and gives the buyer much more control and information.
- extension 15y ago
  Why wouldn't every penny matter? People are still buying from stores at least some of the time. The greater the price difference, the more business the stores will lose to Amazon, presumably.
  - ugh 15y ago
    My point is that retail won’t be doing that much better if Amazon has to pay VAT. An example for this are countries where Amazon already has to pay VAT and retail isn’t doing that much better.
FireBeyond 15y ago
Yeah, it costs Amazon nothing to run... Maybe Amazon should be complaining that the retailers don't have to manage huge server farms, or employ hundreds of technical staff, or so on. They both have costs associated with doing business. Amazon has to pay ongoing infrastructure costs that the retailers don't, they have to take care of sales and other taxes that Amazon might.
anamax 15y ago
> But they do have to pay a fee just for the privilege of doing business, and Amazon gets to do business without paying that fee. They pay that fee in return for services that they get, services that Amazon doesn't get.

Terretta 15y ago

No, they don't pay a fee. You pay a fee for making a purchase. Local retailers should be arguing that they don't want to be the tax collectors, so their prices would look lower too. Either way, you, the buyer, are responsible for paying the sales and use tax, regardless of whether you bought from BestBuy or Amazon. Again, both BestBuy and Amazon "get to do business without paying that fee", as it's not something either of them pays. To enjoy the competitive advantage of having a local presence, BestBuy does agree to help your local government collect your taxes (and in fact gets to KEEP a percentage of the taxes they collect!), while Amazon, who is not in your local jurisdiction, relies on you to pay the tax you owe.

storborg 15y ago
So I assume you willfully pay your tax on all online purchases?
- rdtsc 15y ago
  My state had line item on the tax form asking for the amount of goods purchased online so then they can tax them. Always wondered what people put in there and if the state even did anything about it (audited people). I guess they could ask Amazon for records (threatening a lawsuit) and cross-reference with all the reported taxes based on name and address. If user bought just from Amazon more than what they reported they they have obviously owe some money + fines & late fees. (But I suppose I am making gross assumptions about the competence and general technical abilities of my state's tax collecting office).
  - Terretta 15y ago
    > could ask Amazon for records (threatening a lawsuit) http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/10/judge-blocks-north-carolina-attempt-to-get-amazon-sales-data.ars http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/10/judge-blocks...
    - rdtsc 15y ago
      Oh wow. I was thinking of a different state, but this is interesting. It already happened and I missed it. First it was anonymous purchase data. Then NC demanded user names and addresses but Amazon fought on 1st Amendment grounds and seems to have won: “The First Amendment protects a buyer from having the expressive content of her purchase of books, music, and audiovisual materials disclosed to the government,” I wonder if this was Zappos for example. What would have been the ruling.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
extension 15y ago
Local retailers should be arguing that they don't want to be the tax collectors, so their prices would look lower too. That seems to me to be what they are arguing. However you want to look at it, the government is forcing them to force their customers to pay more, and not forcing Amazon to do the same, for no justifiable reason.

ugh 15y ago

Do you really think that matters? Amazon seems to be doing really well (and retailers not so much) even in countries where all retailers have to collect VAT (like Germany). Online shopping is just more convenient and gives the buyer much more control and information.

extension 15y ago
Why wouldn't every penny matter? People are still buying from stores at least some of the time. The greater the price difference, the more business the stores will lose to Amazon, presumably.
- ugh 15y ago
  My point is that retail won’t be doing that much better if Amazon has to pay VAT. An example for this are countries where Amazon already has to pay VAT and retail isn’t doing that much better.

FireBeyond 15y ago

Yeah, it costs Amazon nothing to run... Maybe Amazon should be complaining that the retailers don't have to manage huge server farms, or employ hundreds of technical staff, or so on. They both have costs associated with doing business. Amazon has to pay ongoing infrastructure costs that the retailers don't, they have to take care of sales and other taxes that Amazon might.

anamax 15y ago

> But they do have to pay a fee just for the privilege of doing business, and Amazon gets to do business without paying that fee. They pay that fee in return for services that they get, services that Amazon doesn't get.