4 ms·

Really, it's the shareholders that should go to jail over this for threatening to short Tesla stock if they don't deliver at every quarterly earnings. They are

by dheera 4y ago

Really, it's the shareholders that should go to jail over this for threatening to short Tesla stock if they don't deliver at every quarterly earnings. They are the ultimate root cause of Tesla's behavior around FSD. If shareholders collectively promise and agree to hold Tesla stock and upvote it for a 5-10 year period it would give Tesla the space and time they need to develop FSD safely. As long as they're at the mercy of ruthless quarterly free market capitalism, safety will go to shit. Same thing with Boeing.

DontchaKnowit 4y ago
And upvote it? Wtf are you talking about
- dheera 4y ago
  Shareholders upvote and downvote stocks with their bid/ask prices.
  - DontchaKnowit 4y ago
    That's a real weird way of putting it.
woeirua 4y ago
You can't be serious. The shareholders demand returns, but the EV side of the company already has been successful enough to keep them placated. No one forced Musk to go out there and repeatedly claim that Telsa's would be able to be used as robotaxis, or that you'd be able to drive across country with no hands. He's still out there making these outlandish claims! At some point, the music is going to stop.
- dheera 4y ago
  > The shareholders demand returns This is the problem. Shareholders demand short term returns, not a long term safe/sustainable future and long term returns. > successful enough to keep them placated No, not really. A good chunk of the market value of TSLA is hinged upon FSD becoming a reality at some point in the future.
  - woeirua 4y ago
    Yes, and in a sane world the SEC and FTC would have slapped Musk down.
  - AlmostAnyone 4y ago
    > This is the problem. Shareholders demand short term returns, not a long term safe/sustainable future and long term returns. So what? There's nothing wrong about that. Shareholders demand both long term stability and short term returns btw - if the market thought there are no long term returns to be had, the stock price would've crashed. Shareholders don't have much say about how Tesla does it, and they're actually the ones defrauded.
  - spacedcowboy 4y ago
    The shareholders can demand whatever they want including shiny unicorns. Musk and Tesla are entitled to say "No". When Tim Cook was asked pointed questions on why Apple gave a crap about environmental concerns, rather than focussing on pure profit über-alles, he smacked down the questioner [1] "If you want me to do things only for ROI reasons, you should get out of this stock.” A company's decisions can be guided by shareholders, but it's on the company to forge their own path. If the shareholders don't like it, they'll vote with their feet. Promising unicorns to keep the feet planted where they are is not a good strategy. [1]: https://9to5mac.com/2014/02/28/tim-cook-rejects-ncppr-proposal-to-end-evironmental-programs-for-increased-profit-suggests-group-sell-stock/ https://9to5mac.com/2014/02/28/tim-cook-rejects-ncppr-propos...
  - Aunche 4y ago
    I don't see how you expect the shareholders to know any better than the consumers. It's not like they have special insider knowledge.

by dheera 4y ago

DontchaKnowit 4y ago

And upvote it? Wtf are you talking about

dheera 4y ago
Shareholders upvote and downvote stocks with their bid/ask prices.
- DontchaKnowit 4y ago
  That's a real weird way of putting it.

woeirua 4y ago

You can't be serious. The shareholders demand returns, but the EV side of the company already has been successful enough to keep them placated. No one forced Musk to go out there and repeatedly claim that Telsa's would be able to be used as robotaxis, or that you'd be able to drive across country with no hands. He's still out there making these outlandish claims! At some point, the music is going to stop.

dheera 4y ago
> The shareholders demand returns This is the problem. Shareholders demand short term returns, not a long term safe/sustainable future and long term returns. > successful enough to keep them placated No, not really. A good chunk of the market value of TSLA is hinged upon FSD becoming a reality at some point in the future.
- woeirua 4y ago
  Yes, and in a sane world the SEC and FTC would have slapped Musk down.
- AlmostAnyone 4y ago
  > This is the problem. Shareholders demand short term returns, not a long term safe/sustainable future and long term returns. So what? There's nothing wrong about that. Shareholders demand both long term stability and short term returns btw - if the market thought there are no long term returns to be had, the stock price would've crashed. Shareholders don't have much say about how Tesla does it, and they're actually the ones defrauded.
- spacedcowboy 4y ago
  The shareholders can demand whatever they want including shiny unicorns. Musk and Tesla are entitled to say "No". When Tim Cook was asked pointed questions on why Apple gave a crap about environmental concerns, rather than focussing on pure profit über-alles, he smacked down the questioner [1] "If you want me to do things only for ROI reasons, you should get out of this stock.” A company's decisions can be guided by shareholders, but it's on the company to forge their own path. If the shareholders don't like it, they'll vote with their feet. Promising unicorns to keep the feet planted where they are is not a good strategy. [1]: https://9to5mac.com/2014/02/28/tim-cook-rejects-ncppr-proposal-to-end-evironmental-programs-for-increased-profit-suggests-group-sell-stock/ https://9to5mac.com/2014/02/28/tim-cook-rejects-ncppr-propos...
- Aunche 4y ago
  I don't see how you expect the shareholders to know any better than the consumers. It's not like they have special insider knowledge.