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I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Tesla the electric car company is doing great. Tesla the FSD tech unicorn, is going to end in tears. I will not be
by woeirua 4y ago
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Tesla the electric car company is doing great. Tesla the FSD tech unicorn, is going to end in tears. I will not be surprised at all when some of the engineers on the AI team go to jail over this. Why the engineers? Because the executives almost always are able to afford high powered lawyers to avoid any serious consequences.
- dheera 4y agoReally, it's the shareholders that should go to jail over this for threatening to short Tesla stock if they don't deliver at every quarterly earnings. They are the ultimate root cause of Tesla's behavior around FSD. If shareholders collectively promise and agree to hold Tesla stock and upvote it for a 5-10 year period it would give Tesla the space and time they need to develop FSD safely. As long as they're at the mercy of ruthless quarterly free market capitalism, safety will go to shit. Same thing with Boeing.
- DontchaKnowit 4y agoAnd upvote it? Wtf are you talking about
- dheera 4y agoShareholders upvote and downvote stocks with their bid/ask prices.
- DontchaKnowit 4y agoThat's a real weird way of putting it.
- woeirua 4y agoYou can't be serious. The shareholders demand returns, but the EV side of the company already has been successful enough to keep them placated. No one forced Musk to go out there and repeatedly claim that Telsa's would be able to be used as robotaxis, or that you'd be able to drive across country with no hands. He's still out there making these outlandish claims! At some point, the music is going to stop.
- dheera 4y ago> The shareholders demand returns This is the problem. Shareholders demand short term returns, not a long term safe/sustainable future and long term returns. > successful enough to keep them placated No, not really. A good chunk of the market value of TSLA is hinged upon FSD becoming a reality at some point in the future.
- woeirua 4y agoYes, and in a sane world the SEC and FTC would have slapped Musk down.
- AlmostAnyone 4y ago> This is the problem. Shareholders demand short term returns, not a long term safe/sustainable future and long term returns. So what? There's nothing wrong about that. Shareholders demand both long term stability and short term returns btw - if the market thought there are no long term returns to be had, the stock price would've crashed. Shareholders don't have much say about how Tesla does it, and they're actually the ones defrauded.
- spacedcowboy 4y agoThe shareholders can demand whatever they want including shiny unicorns. Musk and Tesla are entitled to say "No". When Tim Cook was asked pointed questions on why Apple gave a crap about environmental concerns, rather than focussing on pure profit über-alles, he smacked down the questioner [1] "If you want me to do things only for ROI reasons, you should get out of this stock.” A company's decisions can be guided by shareholders, but it's on the company to forge their own path. If the shareholders don't like it, they'll vote with their feet. Promising unicorns to keep the feet planted where they are is not a good strategy. [1]: https://9to5mac.com/2014/02/28/tim-cook-rejects-ncppr-proposal-to-end-evironmental-programs-for-increased-profit-suggests-group-sell-stock/ https://9to5mac.com/2014/02/28/tim-cook-rejects-ncppr-propos...
- Aunche 4y agoI don't see how you expect the shareholders to know any better than the consumers. It's not like they have special insider knowledge.
- ARandomerDude 4y ago
- whateveracct 4y agohaha so you think the Elon Musk is being persecuted by the DoJ for political reasons? In broad daylight for made-up reasons? The Trump administration really obliterated the DoJ's reputation and people's expectations and norms.
- RetpolineDrama 4y ago
- shiftpgdn 4y agoHow many January 6th rioters are still in jail? How many tea party members were unfairly audited by the IRS. It’s a lot more than you think.
- mrguyorama 4y agoIt's almost like trying to invade the capital is a crime or something.
- shiftpgdn 4y agoI agree, but they have a constitutional right to a quick and speedy trial.
- whateveracct 4y agoIs a year-and-a-half that long for such a high-profile case (potentially with co-conspirators and other related cases going on?) Also, sentences have been doled out. They aren't being Gitmo'd.
- shiftpgdn 4y ago
- kube-system 4y agoThis investigation is about statements made about the car's capabilities, not an issue with the capability itself. This is squarely on their marketing and executive teams. In fact, some of their other departments are notable for contradicting the lofty claims of their marketing.
- woeirua 4y agoWhen the shit starts flying, the execs and marketing team are absolutely going to throw the engineers under the bus. "We were just repeating what we were told by the engineers." "We didn't know any better." It happens every time. The best defense for the engineers is to have thoroughly documented the limitations of the system.
- kube-system 4y agoAll of those limitations are documented and are even published in the owners manual, among other things. "Nobody told us" doesn't hold water in this scenario. Musk knows exactly what his car can and can't do, but he sells it with misleading marketing anyway.
- Invictus0 4y ago> It happens every time. Citation needed please
- tinalumfoil 4y agoDo you have an example where an engineer was wrongly held to account for the actions of execs?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- CamperBob2 4y agoNot exactly the same thing, but Boeing certainly tried to throw Mark Forkner under the bus.
- deleted 4y ago
- aeternum 4y agoThis is an outlandish claim and needless fearmongering. Why stop at Tesla, should Meta/Twitter engineers also go to jail for their role in building platforms that can be used to incite violence? Boeing engineers for the 737 Max? Toyota engineers for the stuck accelerator issues?
- woeirua 4y agoYou might have missed when the DOJ indicted the Chief Technical Pilot for the 737 Max as a result of the crashes [1]. BTW, he was later acquitted by a jury. [1] https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/former-boeing-737-max-chief-technical-pilot-indicted-fraud https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/former-boeing-737-max-chief-t...
- nomel 4y agoI think the last two could easily be a “yes” if failing safety tests were signed off by those engineers.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- tomjakubowski 4y agoI don't think OP ever said they should face charges, only that they probably will.
- 4y ago
- iancmceachern 4y agoThis happened with that whole GM ignition switch thing Edited to add this link https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2014/11/14/business/a-fatally-flawed-switch-and-a-burdened-engineer.amp.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2014/11/14/busi...
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]