12 ms·

Not only it’s inhumane, it’s also stupid: it incentivizes pilots who have problems like that to hide them, instead of coming forward.

by otikik 4y ago

Diesel555 4y ago
I'm not sure I agree with the inhumane (flight pay is an incentive pay where without it pilots still make the same pay as the rest of the military their rank), but I can confirm the stupidity of the policy. Usually anyone medically interacting with a fighter pilot on an issue that could be grounding must spend some time gaining trust for the pilot to be completely open with them. The result of this policy is normally that pilots are completely fine - until they are completely broken.
- tyingq 4y ago
  For some context, "flight pay" ranges from $150/month to $400/month today, depending on tenure. A brand new lieutenant has a ~$41k base salary, a 4-year captain ~$65k. So it's not a small incentive, but not huge either. There are other things like base housing (or a housing allowance), overseas pay, etc, that bump up overall comp a bit.
  - CuriousCosmic 4y ago
    Additional context: At the time this happened (after 1958 and before 1963), monthly pay for a new 2LT was 220 (2.7k per year) and for a 4 year captain 420 (5k and some change per year). Flight pay would be 100 and 185 per month (1.2k and 2.2k per year respectively). So while today it's not a lot, back then it'd be at least a 30% pay cut which would be hard for any family. https://www.dfas.mil/Portals/98/MilPayTable1958.pdf https://www.dfas.mil/Portals/98/MilPayTable1958.pdf
    - tyingq 4y ago
      Wow, they really let the flight incentive pay erode over time.
- Forgeties79 4y ago
  The fact that his mother had to return to work just to “make ends meet” indicates it was not an inconsequential loss, I think “inhumane” isn’t too far of a stretch. Especially given his injury was the direct result of risking his life for the American government.
dctoedt 4y ago
According to my dad, flight surgeons are the natural enemies of military pilots.
- the__alchemist 4y ago
  Depends. Fighter squadrons generally have their own dedicated in-house flight doc. They stop by the squadron regularly, hang out outside work, deploy and go TDY with you etc. The good ones will do their best not to screw you over. It's best to be guarded against anyone external though!
Blackthorn 4y ago
Indeed, this is exactly how the FAA medical system works. People either avoid medical care, or conceal it by paying in cash for everything, rather than risking their medical status.
ghoward 4y ago
Yes, absolutely. I have a pilot acquaintance that would refuse to go to the doctor when he was younger. I also tried to become a pilot, but because of a documented history of taking anti-depressants, the FAA grounded me for life, despite being years removed from needing them. [1] I wish that history was not documented. [1]: https://gavinhoward.com/2022/09/grounded-for-life-losing-the-dream-of-flight/ https://gavinhoward.com/2022/09/grounded-for-life-losing-the...
- dmitrygr 4y ago
  Are you sure? Last I checked (a friend was on anti-depressants), as long as you only want a private (not commercial or ATP), a year off the meds or a year at a stable dose and a letter from your doc that you're ok will be enough to get a 3rd class medical.
  - gavinhoward 4y ago
    I have been denied a medical by the Federal Air Surgeon. I have the personal letter from her to prove it. This is usually done on a case-by-case basis; I just happened to come down on the unlucky end of it.
    - dmitrygr 4y ago
      Sorry, that sucks. There is hope that MATRIX will allow more small planes to be piloted without a medical. Hang in there.
  - Blackthorn 4y ago
    The FAA rarely follows their own guidelines and procedures on this matter.
- Aerroon 4y ago
  It's unrelated, but I wanted to nitpick this: >safety comes first. Always. The safest way to keep the airspace above the US would be to ban all general and commercial aviation. Safety does not come first. Safety never comes first, because the safest course of action is to never do anything. It is always a balancing of risk. It is very unfortunate that something like this is keeping you from your dream. I'm sorry.

Not only it’s inhumane, it’s also stupid: it incentivizes pilots who have problems like that to hide them, instead of coming forward.

by otikik 4y ago

Not only it’s inhumane, it’s also stupid: it incentivizes pilots who have problems like that to hide them, instead of coming forward.

Diesel555 4y ago

I'm not sure I agree with the inhumane (flight pay is an incentive pay where without it pilots still make the same pay as the rest of the military their rank), but I can confirm the stupidity of the policy. Usually anyone medically interacting with a fighter pilot on an issue that could be grounding must spend some time gaining trust for the pilot to be completely open with them. The result of this policy is normally that pilots are completely fine - until they are completely broken.

tyingq 4y ago
For some context, "flight pay" ranges from $150/month to $400/month today, depending on tenure. A brand new lieutenant has a ~$41k base salary, a 4-year captain ~$65k. So it's not a small incentive, but not huge either. There are other things like base housing (or a housing allowance), overseas pay, etc, that bump up overall comp a bit.
- CuriousCosmic 4y ago
  Additional context: At the time this happened (after 1958 and before 1963), monthly pay for a new 2LT was 220 (2.7k per year) and for a 4 year captain 420 (5k and some change per year). Flight pay would be 100 and 185 per month (1.2k and 2.2k per year respectively). So while today it's not a lot, back then it'd be at least a 30% pay cut which would be hard for any family. https://www.dfas.mil/Portals/98/MilPayTable1958.pdf https://www.dfas.mil/Portals/98/MilPayTable1958.pdf
  - tyingq 4y ago
    Wow, they really let the flight incentive pay erode over time.
Forgeties79 4y ago
The fact that his mother had to return to work just to “make ends meet” indicates it was not an inconsequential loss, I think “inhumane” isn’t too far of a stretch. Especially given his injury was the direct result of risking his life for the American government.

dctoedt 4y ago

According to my dad, flight surgeons are the natural enemies of military pilots.

the__alchemist 4y ago
Depends. Fighter squadrons generally have their own dedicated in-house flight doc. They stop by the squadron regularly, hang out outside work, deploy and go TDY with you etc. The good ones will do their best not to screw you over. It's best to be guarded against anyone external though!

Blackthorn 4y ago

Indeed, this is exactly how the FAA medical system works. People either avoid medical care, or conceal it by paying in cash for everything, rather than risking their medical status.

ghoward 4y ago

Yes, absolutely. I have a pilot acquaintance that would refuse to go to the doctor when he was younger. I also tried to become a pilot, but because of a documented history of taking anti-depressants, the FAA grounded me for life, despite being years removed from needing them. [1] I wish that history was not documented. [1]: https://gavinhoward.com/2022/09/grounded-for-life-losing-the-dream-of-flight/ https://gavinhoward.com/2022/09/grounded-for-life-losing-the...

dmitrygr 4y ago
Are you sure? Last I checked (a friend was on anti-depressants), as long as you only want a private (not commercial or ATP), a year off the meds or a year at a stable dose and a letter from your doc that you're ok will be enough to get a 3rd class medical.
- gavinhoward 4y ago
  I have been denied a medical by the Federal Air Surgeon. I have the personal letter from her to prove it. This is usually done on a case-by-case basis; I just happened to come down on the unlucky end of it.
  - dmitrygr 4y ago
    Sorry, that sucks. There is hope that MATRIX will allow more small planes to be piloted without a medical. Hang in there.
- Blackthorn 4y ago
  The FAA rarely follows their own guidelines and procedures on this matter.
Aerroon 4y ago
It's unrelated, but I wanted to nitpick this: >safety comes first. Always. The safest way to keep the airspace above the US would be to ban all general and commercial aviation. Safety does not come first. Safety never comes first, because the safest course of action is to never do anything. It is always a balancing of risk. It is very unfortunate that something like this is keeping you from your dream. I'm sorry.