3 ms·

Actually, this is refreshingly honest compared to the "agile" methodologies. Having worked with plenty of supposedly agile consultants I can tell you they basi

by zedshaw 15y ago

Actually, this is refreshingly honest compared to the "agile" methodologies. Having worked with plenty of supposedly agile consultants I can tell you they basically do waterfall it's just their cascading stupidity starts with code and then wanders around writing unit tests until the client is tapped out. At least this is doing some actual user interface design and usability testing. Then again, I doubt these guys do this since it's all marketing.

jameskilton 15y ago
Really? Claiming to have invented the most well know and also the worst software development process is honest? It's a bold-faced lie written only to get clients. One can only imagine what actually happens in communication once they have a client. If the marketing is a complete lie, then I can't imagine the company itself can be trusted.
- zedshaw 15y ago
  >Claiming to have invented the most well know and also the worst software development process is honest? They claim to have developed the best process, just like all the agile con artists out there.
bh42222 15y ago
The difference between "agile" and "waterfall" isn't that easy to pin down. Some people think of "agile" as just going through their full waterfall process every month or every two weeks. Other people insist the core of "agile" is TDD, others claim nonsense, TDD is just as much part of "waterfall", and yet others don't see any point in TDD for their "agile" process. tl;dr: It's all bullshit, all the way down.
sleight42 15y ago
Most "agile" consultants you know start coding from day one? If so, I now understand much better why you dump so much on agile. I had myself a nice little nerd slap fight on twitter earlier today about this post. "Agile" without up front planning and research is just dangerous.
- zedshaw 15y ago
  Oh, now we're going to get into the perpetual argument of what is really agile? Agile's like porn. Everybody who does it claims they know what it is, but nobody can define it. Instead they call "successful" projects properly agile and failures are just shoved under the rug with claims they didn't do agile hard enough. So please, save your criticism that you know what is and clearly I don't. You can't define it, and if you think you can I know you don't follow it.
  - sleight42 15y ago
    God damn, Zed. You sure jump to conclusions that people are going to fight with you! Not that you remember it we've met twice and had perfectly normal conversations. No, I agree, dammit! So take that! Although I can see where you may have misread my honest question as rhetoric to indicate conflict. That was, as I said, an honest question--though perhaps missing a few words. I was inquiring whether the "agile" consultants you've known start coding on a new project from day one of the project indicating that, in those cases, they aren't taking much time at allfor research or planning. Agile is a broad label that doesn't make a lot of sense. I've been in the biz 16 years. If there's anything that I preach it's "it depends" and "YMMV". Please don't assume we're all out to get you or that we all believe that we know better than everyone else.

by zedshaw 15y ago

jameskilton 15y ago

Really? Claiming to have invented the most well know and also the worst software development process is honest? It's a bold-faced lie written only to get clients. One can only imagine what actually happens in communication once they have a client. If the marketing is a complete lie, then I can't imagine the company itself can be trusted.

zedshaw 15y ago
>Claiming to have invented the most well know and also the worst software development process is honest? They claim to have developed the best process, just like all the agile con artists out there.

bh42222 15y ago

The difference between "agile" and "waterfall" isn't that easy to pin down. Some people think of "agile" as just going through their full waterfall process every month or every two weeks. Other people insist the core of "agile" is TDD, others claim nonsense, TDD is just as much part of "waterfall", and yet others don't see any point in TDD for their "agile" process. tl;dr: It's all bullshit, all the way down.

sleight42 15y ago

Most "agile" consultants you know start coding from day one? If so, I now understand much better why you dump so much on agile. I had myself a nice little nerd slap fight on twitter earlier today about this post. "Agile" without up front planning and research is just dangerous.

zedshaw 15y ago
Oh, now we're going to get into the perpetual argument of what is really agile? Agile's like porn. Everybody who does it claims they know what it is, but nobody can define it. Instead they call "successful" projects properly agile and failures are just shoved under the rug with claims they didn't do agile hard enough. So please, save your criticism that you know what is and clearly I don't. You can't define it, and if you think you can I know you don't follow it.
- sleight42 15y ago
  God damn, Zed. You sure jump to conclusions that people are going to fight with you! Not that you remember it we've met twice and had perfectly normal conversations. No, I agree, dammit! So take that! Although I can see where you may have misread my honest question as rhetoric to indicate conflict. That was, as I said, an honest question--though perhaps missing a few words. I was inquiring whether the "agile" consultants you've known start coding on a new project from day one of the project indicating that, in those cases, they aren't taking much time at allfor research or planning. Agile is a broad label that doesn't make a lot of sense. I've been in the biz 16 years. If there's anything that I preach it's "it depends" and "YMMV". Please don't assume we're all out to get you or that we all believe that we know better than everyone else.