4 ms·

If you are in the USA, then what you received are unsolicited marketing phone calls under the TCPA, a law which allows you to personally collect up to $1500 per

If you are in the USA, then what you received are unsolicited marketing phone calls under the TCPA, a law which allows you to personally collect up to $1500 per violation of the law or associated regulations, per phone call that you received. If your personal phone is on the federal "Do Not Call" registry, it's possible that there are at least two violations of the law per phone call you received. I would suggest sending a demand letter to Meta's legal department offering to settle for somewhat less than $1500 per violation. Here's an example: https://www.junkfax.org/w/images/0/0b/SampleDemandLetter.pdf https://www.junkfax.org/w/images/0/0b/SampleDemandLetter.pdf If they ignore you, be prepared to file a local case in small claims court (which you can do yourself without an attorney). The court can force them to pay you if you present evidence of the calls and the law(s) or regulations that were broken. Disclaimer: I am not a laywer and this is not legal advice, but I have collected money from TCPA legal settlements in the past, each without needing to go to court.

ignite 4y ago
I thought that companies you are doing business with are allowed to call you. He has an account, they can call. Also not a lawyer.
- cmatthias 4y ago
  The TCPA requires express written consent to send marketing messages or phone calls to any personal phone number. Legal precedent dictates that online, this usually takes the form of a specific checkbox on the form where you're giving your phone number saying that you agree that the company can use the phone number for marketing purposes. I doubt Meta collects this type of express written consent for your 2FA phone number, but I guess it's possible. There indeed used to be an exemption to the law involving an existing business relationship, but 1) this was only for residential land lines and never applied to cell phones, and 2) it was revoked on October 16, 2013. [1] [1] https://tcpablog.com/new-tcpa-regulations-take-effect-on-october-16th/ https://tcpablog.com/new-tcpa-regulations-take-effect-on-oct...
- Jochim 4y ago
  I'd assume in this case that they'd be allowed to call his business. It sounds like his personal contact details are entirely separate from his business ones. I don't believe they should ever be using personal details to contact a business. Even if he did provide them his phone number. In many places, that data may only be used for the purpose for which it was given. If they request a phone number for 2FA and then use it to contact you it could absolutely be considered illegal.
  - codyZ 4y ago
    Correct - My personal number is nowhere to be seen anywhere on the business account.
CoastalCoder 4y ago
> ... this is not legal advice How is it not?
- gdsdfe 4y ago
  Because you can sue a lawyer for misrepresentation but you can't sue someone for giving their advice
  - cmatthias 4y ago
    Yep. Since I'm not a lawyer it probably wasn't necessary to include the "not legal advice" bit, but I'm just trying to be clear.
    - wrs 4y ago
      It’s illegal for a non-lawyer to claim to be giving legal advice, so it’s traditional to be clear that you aren’t doing that. (Of course, I’m not claiming to give you legal advice on this.)
- labrador 4y ago
  Because only lawyers can give legal advice. Paralegals give paralegal advice. Non certified citizens give advice.
- dimitrios1 4y ago
  The same way someone who is not a doctor telling you to take apple cider vinegar pills to help with your digestive issues isn't medical advice.
- hinkley 4y ago
  That is not a statement of fact but a disclaimer of liability. I don't know how this plays out in other jurisdictions but it's hit epidemic levels here. Some people get away with it though, like people with doctorates calling themselves Doctor on TV and giving out personal, relationship and medical advice while somehow managing not to be sued back to the Stone Age. Edit: Am I wrong? Tell me why.
kritiko 4y ago
Using Facebook Business Tools requires you to accept an arbitration clause, which may limit your ability to pursue small claims against them: https://www.facebook.com/legal/commercial_terms/update https://www.facebook.com/legal/commercial_terms/update
- bedast 4y ago
  If they were using his business contacts, this seems like it would apply, as that data is collected from the business accounts which would fall under this agreement. But does this apply when using personal account data? Does the business account agreement override the use of PII on a personal account to initiate business solicitations? Definitely something to talk to a lawyer about.
  - _nalply 4y ago
    Or just try small claims and see.
- toast0 4y ago
  Sure, but you can pursue the claim in arbitration, and they'll pay the fees as long as you don't claim too much. > Each party will be responsible for paying any AAA filing, administrative and arbitrator fees in accordance with AAA Rules, except that we will pay for your filing, administrative, and arbitrator fees if your Commercial Claim for damages does not exceed $75,000 and is non-frivolous (as measured by the standards set forth in Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 11(b))
- cmatthias 4y ago
  This definitely makes the situation quite a bit more sticky, however hope is not completely lost IMHO. For example, there have been several cases recently dealing with binding arbitration clauses and the TCPA, and in several of them, the binding arbitration clause was found to be unenforceable [1]. If it were me, I'd still send the demand letter and see how it plays out. [1] https://www.dnc.com/news/compelled-arbitration-tcpa-defense-strategy https://www.dnc.com/news/compelled-arbitration-tcpa-defense-...
- 4y ago
kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
That doesn't apply when you have an existing business relationship. That constitutes express consent. Never cross the streams on unrelated accounts.
- cmatthias 4y ago
  This is incorrect; see my response elsewhere in the thread for details. Express written consent is always required to send marketing messages or make marketing calls to personal (residential land-line or mobile) phone numbers.

ignite 4y ago

I thought that companies you are doing business with are allowed to call you. He has an account, they can call. Also not a lawyer.

cmatthias 4y ago
The TCPA requires express written consent to send marketing messages or phone calls to any personal phone number. Legal precedent dictates that online, this usually takes the form of a specific checkbox on the form where you're giving your phone number saying that you agree that the company can use the phone number for marketing purposes. I doubt Meta collects this type of express written consent for your 2FA phone number, but I guess it's possible. There indeed used to be an exemption to the law involving an existing business relationship, but 1) this was only for residential land lines and never applied to cell phones, and 2) it was revoked on October 16, 2013. [1] [1] https://tcpablog.com/new-tcpa-regulations-take-effect-on-october-16th/ https://tcpablog.com/new-tcpa-regulations-take-effect-on-oct...
Jochim 4y ago
I'd assume in this case that they'd be allowed to call his business. It sounds like his personal contact details are entirely separate from his business ones. I don't believe they should ever be using personal details to contact a business. Even if he did provide them his phone number. In many places, that data may only be used for the purpose for which it was given. If they request a phone number for 2FA and then use it to contact you it could absolutely be considered illegal.
- codyZ 4y ago
  Correct - My personal number is nowhere to be seen anywhere on the business account.

CoastalCoder 4y ago

> ... this is not legal advice How is it not?

gdsdfe 4y ago
Because you can sue a lawyer for misrepresentation but you can't sue someone for giving their advice
- cmatthias 4y ago
  Yep. Since I'm not a lawyer it probably wasn't necessary to include the "not legal advice" bit, but I'm just trying to be clear.
  - wrs 4y ago
    It’s illegal for a non-lawyer to claim to be giving legal advice, so it’s traditional to be clear that you aren’t doing that. (Of course, I’m not claiming to give you legal advice on this.)
labrador 4y ago
Because only lawyers can give legal advice. Paralegals give paralegal advice. Non certified citizens give advice.
dimitrios1 4y ago
The same way someone who is not a doctor telling you to take apple cider vinegar pills to help with your digestive issues isn't medical advice.
hinkley 4y ago
That is not a statement of fact but a disclaimer of liability. I don't know how this plays out in other jurisdictions but it's hit epidemic levels here. Some people get away with it though, like people with doctorates calling themselves Doctor on TV and giving out personal, relationship and medical advice while somehow managing not to be sued back to the Stone Age. Edit: Am I wrong? Tell me why.

kritiko 4y ago

Using Facebook Business Tools requires you to accept an arbitration clause, which may limit your ability to pursue small claims against them: https://www.facebook.com/legal/commercial_terms/update https://www.facebook.com/legal/commercial_terms/update

bedast 4y ago
If they were using his business contacts, this seems like it would apply, as that data is collected from the business accounts which would fall under this agreement. But does this apply when using personal account data? Does the business account agreement override the use of PII on a personal account to initiate business solicitations? Definitely something to talk to a lawyer about.
- _nalply 4y ago
  Or just try small claims and see.
toast0 4y ago
Sure, but you can pursue the claim in arbitration, and they'll pay the fees as long as you don't claim too much. > Each party will be responsible for paying any AAA filing, administrative and arbitrator fees in accordance with AAA Rules, except that we will pay for your filing, administrative, and arbitrator fees if your Commercial Claim for damages does not exceed $75,000 and is non-frivolous (as measured by the standards set forth in Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 11(b))
cmatthias 4y ago
This definitely makes the situation quite a bit more sticky, however hope is not completely lost IMHO. For example, there have been several cases recently dealing with binding arbitration clauses and the TCPA, and in several of them, the binding arbitration clause was found to be unenforceable [1]. If it were me, I'd still send the demand letter and see how it plays out. [1] https://www.dnc.com/news/compelled-arbitration-tcpa-defense-strategy https://www.dnc.com/news/compelled-arbitration-tcpa-defense-...
4y ago

kevin_thibedeau 4y ago

That doesn't apply when you have an existing business relationship. That constitutes express consent. Never cross the streams on unrelated accounts.

cmatthias 4y ago
This is incorrect; see my response elsewhere in the thread for details. Express written consent is always required to send marketing messages or make marketing calls to personal (residential land-line or mobile) phone numbers.