4 ms·

I'm from the US, live in Finland. From here, it really seems like the US needs to upgrade its prisons to be safe. Hard to meditate on atonement and redemption w

I'm from the US, live in Finland. From here, it really seems like the US needs to upgrade its prisons to be safe. Hard to meditate on atonement and redemption when you're in a constant struggle for survival. The implicit idea that rape for instance is a potential, extra-legal added punishment is outrageous.

quacked 4y ago
I completely agree with you. As a matter of fact, I often say that if I had to pick one reform issue to support it would be to "make prison safe". Out of the people labelled "criminal" or "legally deviant" in the US, I believe there is a big split between people who could reintegrate given a safe prison sentence and people that I think need to be exiled or executed. If prison was safe for the prisoners we could absolutely use a "light touch" for some offenders. A lot of the worst damage to society, though, is orchestrated by chronic offenders who through whatever mix of genetics and environment have developed a set of beliefs and motivations that I think are unacceptable to keep around. To quote the example from the original article, forcing someone to commit crimes under pain of punishment or death simply isn't someone I have any interest in rehabilitating. Second-order organized crime is almost always worse for society than first-order crimes of passion or need.
- aerostable_slug 4y ago
  > If prison was safe for the prisoners we could absolutely use a "light touch" for some offenders. We do that already. Level 1 yards (in California-ese) are quite safe and filled with white collar criminals, fraudsters, drunk drivers, drug-dealing doctors, etc. Some facilities don't even have perimeter fences. The safest are the fire camps, because nobody there wants to get kicked back to general population (these inmates voluntarily work as wilderness firefighters). OTOH, Level 4 yards are filled with murderers serving life sentences and the like. As a visitor or staff, you can't even go on the yard without wearing stab-resistant armor. Some particularly troublesome inmates don't even get yard time — they exercise in cages or isolated rec areas, never leave their cells without full shackles, and are never escorted by fewer than 2-3 correctional officers (depending on the facility). They are strip searched every time they leave their cells. That kind of treatment is generally "earned" by one's behavior on the inside, with few exceptions — we sometimes treat convicted spies (e.g. Ames, Hanssen) like this as a deterrent to others contemplating betraying their loyalties.
  - rendall 4y ago
    I don't agree with punitive solitary confinement, but yes it's great that some prisoners in the US do not experience unrelenting, unmitigated hell.
aerostable_slug 4y ago
FWIW, PREA [0] has made a major impact on sexual assaults in American prisons & jails. It is really taken very seriously at the facilities I've visited (for work purposes). In fact, I've seen the allegations made by a clearly mentally ill person taken seriously and investigated, though the statement was obviously a work of fiction and the product of a deranged mind. Some units have dedicated "PREA Phones" to facilitate anonymous tips, and inmates with tablets can report via an app. Also, mentally ill inmates are (at least in California) generally put into their own housing units to prevent predation by the rest of the population. They have access to medication but cannot be forced to take them. [0]: https://www.prearesourcecenter.org/about/prison-rape-elimination-act https://www.prearesourcecenter.org/about/prison-rape-elimina...
- rendall 4y ago
  That's a marvelous development.

quacked 4y ago

I completely agree with you. As a matter of fact, I often say that if I had to pick one reform issue to support it would be to "make prison safe". Out of the people labelled "criminal" or "legally deviant" in the US, I believe there is a big split between people who could reintegrate given a safe prison sentence and people that I think need to be exiled or executed. If prison was safe for the prisoners we could absolutely use a "light touch" for some offenders. A lot of the worst damage to society, though, is orchestrated by chronic offenders who through whatever mix of genetics and environment have developed a set of beliefs and motivations that I think are unacceptable to keep around. To quote the example from the original article, forcing someone to commit crimes under pain of punishment or death simply isn't someone I have any interest in rehabilitating. Second-order organized crime is almost always worse for society than first-order crimes of passion or need.

aerostable_slug 4y ago
> If prison was safe for the prisoners we could absolutely use a "light touch" for some offenders. We do that already. Level 1 yards (in California-ese) are quite safe and filled with white collar criminals, fraudsters, drunk drivers, drug-dealing doctors, etc. Some facilities don't even have perimeter fences. The safest are the fire camps, because nobody there wants to get kicked back to general population (these inmates voluntarily work as wilderness firefighters). OTOH, Level 4 yards are filled with murderers serving life sentences and the like. As a visitor or staff, you can't even go on the yard without wearing stab-resistant armor. Some particularly troublesome inmates don't even get yard time — they exercise in cages or isolated rec areas, never leave their cells without full shackles, and are never escorted by fewer than 2-3 correctional officers (depending on the facility). They are strip searched every time they leave their cells. That kind of treatment is generally "earned" by one's behavior on the inside, with few exceptions — we sometimes treat convicted spies (e.g. Ames, Hanssen) like this as a deterrent to others contemplating betraying their loyalties.
- rendall 4y ago
  I don't agree with punitive solitary confinement, but yes it's great that some prisoners in the US do not experience unrelenting, unmitigated hell.

aerostable_slug 4y ago

FWIW, PREA [0] has made a major impact on sexual assaults in American prisons & jails. It is really taken very seriously at the facilities I've visited (for work purposes). In fact, I've seen the allegations made by a clearly mentally ill person taken seriously and investigated, though the statement was obviously a work of fiction and the product of a deranged mind. Some units have dedicated "PREA Phones" to facilitate anonymous tips, and inmates with tablets can report via an app. Also, mentally ill inmates are (at least in California) generally put into their own housing units to prevent predation by the rest of the population. They have access to medication but cannot be forced to take them. [0]: https://www.prearesourcecenter.org/about/prison-rape-elimination-act https://www.prearesourcecenter.org/about/prison-rape-elimina...

rendall 4y ago
That's a marvelous development.