4 ms·

I wouldn't put that much importance into a specific editor, even touch typing. Typing is not a programming bottleneck. Programming is thinking and talking to pe

I wouldn't put that much importance into a specific editor, even touch typing. Typing is not a programming bottleneck. Programming is thinking and talking to people. You would have a hard time doing that if you don't even know Windows, which everyone uses on desktop.

eimrine 4y ago
> Typing is not a programming bottleneck. Programming is thinking and talking to people. We use to have 7+-2 layers of thinking. When you program, you hold in these layers: what word are you typing, where are you typing, what problem are you solving, what parts of codebase are you changing. If you do not touchtype, you are wasting at least 1/9 of your brain's possibility. Each time you are interrupting your stare from a screen you actually performing some extra scanning job which gives you nothing except of fatigue. Actually my first programming decision which I did in my tenths was to get rid of QWERTY and it was one of few things in my life which I did absolutely right. So telling me that touchtyping skill is not important is just counterproductive. > I wouldn't put that much importance into a specific editor vim does to my text editing experience as much as touchtype does to my text input, no not-touchtyping person can understand how cool is to make all kinds of edits without getting my fingers off the 5 rows of keyboard (3 rows plus digits plus space but in default configuration you also need Esc).
- Comevius 4y ago
  You are preaching to the choir, I type exclusively using the Workman layout and very old keyboards, but I do it for ergonomic reasons. Fatigue may be involved, but I'm not buying the rest of the argument. Most programmers are not touch-typing wizards, some of them still hunt and peck, and a few of them have an issue using a keyboard in the first place. People can adapt, and programming is not a typing competition as I said, it's a thinking and talking one.
  - eimrine 4y ago
    Kudos to old Intel keyboard or similar mechanical, I really want to type on this on a regular basis but most of my work is happening on my laptop. OK, you convinced me that touchtyping is not important when you program. But what about learning? The SICP book contains tens of kilobytes of code which needs to be typed, copypasting of code while learning just doesn't work for me. If I do not do any typos when learning a new programming language, I just do not feel it. But if I need to observe the keyboard while learning than all the learning process goes south because I do typos not because I do not know the language but because I do not know the keyboard. Nothing impossible in doing this without touchtyping but for me this is too annoying. And there is nothing wizardy in learning how to properly press a few tens of buttons, this is not anything creative.
  - karmakaze 4y ago
    This is my experience exactly. I use an alternate layout for comfort as I had hand pains from many years of touch typing. The funny thing I realized when learning a new keyboard layout was that I don't do enough typing at my 8 hours a day job to learn a new layout. I had to use prose practice sites to get up to speed. I think touch-typing is important, but not more important than being interested in what you're trying to do. If trying to learn to type properly detracts from that, it should be learned later.
frou_dh 4y ago
> I wouldn't put that much importance into a specific editor vi and emacs are a bit special because they have demonstrated extreme longevity. So in the spirit of the original question, it could actually be prudent to commit to one of those from the get-go and the mastery could compound and last your entire career.
- Comevius 4y ago
  I'm fluent in both, these days I use Helix. Vim and Emacs users tend to be busy playing with their editors, it's a distraction most people don't need. I never did either.

eimrine 4y ago

> Typing is not a programming bottleneck. Programming is thinking and talking to people. We use to have 7+-2 layers of thinking. When you program, you hold in these layers: what word are you typing, where are you typing, what problem are you solving, what parts of codebase are you changing. If you do not touchtype, you are wasting at least 1/9 of your brain's possibility. Each time you are interrupting your stare from a screen you actually performing some extra scanning job which gives you nothing except of fatigue. Actually my first programming decision which I did in my tenths was to get rid of QWERTY and it was one of few things in my life which I did absolutely right. So telling me that touchtyping skill is not important is just counterproductive. > I wouldn't put that much importance into a specific editor vim does to my text editing experience as much as touchtype does to my text input, no not-touchtyping person can understand how cool is to make all kinds of edits without getting my fingers off the 5 rows of keyboard (3 rows plus digits plus space but in default configuration you also need Esc).

Comevius 4y ago
You are preaching to the choir, I type exclusively using the Workman layout and very old keyboards, but I do it for ergonomic reasons. Fatigue may be involved, but I'm not buying the rest of the argument. Most programmers are not touch-typing wizards, some of them still hunt and peck, and a few of them have an issue using a keyboard in the first place. People can adapt, and programming is not a typing competition as I said, it's a thinking and talking one.
- eimrine 4y ago
  Kudos to old Intel keyboard or similar mechanical, I really want to type on this on a regular basis but most of my work is happening on my laptop. OK, you convinced me that touchtyping is not important when you program. But what about learning? The SICP book contains tens of kilobytes of code which needs to be typed, copypasting of code while learning just doesn't work for me. If I do not do any typos when learning a new programming language, I just do not feel it. But if I need to observe the keyboard while learning than all the learning process goes south because I do typos not because I do not know the language but because I do not know the keyboard. Nothing impossible in doing this without touchtyping but for me this is too annoying. And there is nothing wizardy in learning how to properly press a few tens of buttons, this is not anything creative.
- karmakaze 4y ago
  This is my experience exactly. I use an alternate layout for comfort as I had hand pains from many years of touch typing. The funny thing I realized when learning a new keyboard layout was that I don't do enough typing at my 8 hours a day job to learn a new layout. I had to use prose practice sites to get up to speed. I think touch-typing is important, but not more important than being interested in what you're trying to do. If trying to learn to type properly detracts from that, it should be learned later.

frou_dh 4y ago

> I wouldn't put that much importance into a specific editor vi and emacs are a bit special because they have demonstrated extreme longevity. So in the spirit of the original question, it could actually be prudent to commit to one of those from the get-go and the mastery could compound and last your entire career.

Comevius 4y ago
I'm fluent in both, these days I use Helix. Vim and Emacs users tend to be busy playing with their editors, it's a distraction most people don't need. I never did either.