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I've been donating to Gitea for years (on their Open Collective [1]) but if they start with this cryptocurrency/blockchain stuff, I am out. I am trying to fund

by remram 4y ago

I've been donating to Gitea for years (on their Open Collective [1]) but if they start with this cryptocurrency/blockchain stuff, I am out. I am trying to fund development, not invest unstable currency technology. Gitea itself started as a fork of Gogs, it wouldn't be too surprising to see it fork again if they start being creative with the brand. [1]: https://opencollective.com/gitea https://opencollective.com/gitea

slbtty 4y ago
They don't even mention a single thing about crypto?
- remram 4y ago
  They mention "a decentralized autonomous organization" which is a blockchain invention (a "smart contract" thingie): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralized_autonomous_organization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralized_autonomous_organ...
  - leppr 4y ago
    The term DAO as it's used now is orthogonal to blockchain and crypto. It's mostly a term to describe codified governance/community systems. There may be point systems implemented via crypto tokens, but in the vast majority of cases those would be better implemented on centralized ledgers since there's someone with centralized control over either the token issuance, the communication channels, or other essential resources. If they were developed now, Stack Overflow and Wikipedia would be considered DAOs.
    - stonogo 4y ago
      That would just indicate the term 'DAO' doesn't mean anything at all. I'm unable to find an actual example of anything calling itself a DAO which doesn't also play with cryptocurrency tokens, so I'm pretty sure the term isn't used outside of that fanbase.
    - bongobingo1 4y ago
      The term crypto as it's used now is orthogonal to crypto. ducks
    - WorldMaker 4y ago
      Stack Overflow was developed as (and is still operated as) a for-profit/profit-motivated Corporation (Stack Exchange Inc.). No one considers it a DAO in any form, especially not the "autonomous" part. Unless you mean the gamified community elements, but you can't really call that an "organization" either because it's entirely disorganized (and sometimes highly dysfunctional) beyond the game mechanics and more importantly extremely centralized to Stack Overflow's servers. Wikipedia is run as a not-for-profit Foundation (Wikimedia Foundation). It doesn't seem anything like DAO either. Again, unless you mean the community of contributors to Wikipedia, and that also is extremely centralized to Wikipedia servers and doesn't have anything resembling "autonomous", not even something resembling Stack Overflow's game mechanics. The "autonomous" in DAO still only means "smart contracts" and no one is using DAO as a term for traditional corporate structures other than those intentionally confused by or wishing to confuse what "autonomous" means in the acronym.
  - ddevault 4y ago
    One of the sponsors listed on their home page is also blockchain-related.
- la_fayette 4y ago
  DAO
- weikju 4y ago
  shows how much the term "decentralized" got hijacked by scams... Or well.. DAO. Likely means blockchain bs.
- 2pEXgD0fZ5cF 4y ago
  > we are experimenting with creating a decentralized autonomous organization where contributors would receive benefits based on their participation Also in their footer: > Sponsored by INBlockchain, Equinix Metal, Two Sigma, SoEBeS, Allspice, Towhee, Hostea, Jeff Moe, and all of our backers on Open Collective.
cycomanic 4y ago
I'm confused, they don't mention crypto. This blog post is simply an announcement that they started a company. The purpose seems to mainly be for providing support services and paying developers. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that.
- throwaccount12 4y ago
  It does mention DAO, which is crypto adjacent, however like you said the purpose listed in the post is to provide paid support services, the DAO is for governance of the community, not to shill some scam crypto coin.
  - viraptor 4y ago
    Whatever the official purpose is going to be, there will be lots of people trading the relevant token and people who got it first are going to cash out during one of the many pump and dumps. And the "why aren't you collaborating with (whatever Web3 project)" / "why aren't you promoting the token more" spam will start too. I've seen it before and it's not going to be pretty.
  - WorldMaker 4y ago
    I don't think a DAO is just cryptocurrency adjacent. A DAO is entirely about trading traditional, well known, corporate structures (boards, shares, Robert's Rules, ballot voting) and replacing them all with cryptocurrency structures (NFT token holders, NFT tokens, "Smart" Contracts, more "Smart" Contracts). There is no DAO without cryptocurrency. There's no token trading or smart contract operations without trading in whatever cryptocoins underpin their DAO's platform of choice. If you think all cryptocoins are a scam to shill in one way or another, there's no DAO operations at all without shilling at least one scam cryptocoin (and usually there's more than one involved on every current platform that supports "smart" contracts). Meanwhile there are existing open-source foundations and conservancies that operate just fine as traditional (not-for-profit) corporations and no need for a DAO or any cryptocurrencies for community governance.
vbezhenar 4y ago
Recently I researched a little bit about this Gogs and Gitea situation. Here's what I've got: Gogs is maintained by a single person. He was reluctant to accept external contributions, so Gitea was forked. Now Gitea is very active with lots of contributors and more features, but Gogs is still maintained and does have many necessary features. We were migrating from GitLab, so I considered to install Gogs, we decided to go with GitHub unfortunately.
- bioemerl 4y ago
  What inspired you to migrate away from GitLab?
kdumont 4y ago
I've also been a contributor to Gitea, but it's not time yet to call the banners. I don't think this announcement was handled particularly well, but nonetheless, I think it's an important development for gitea to grow and become sustainable. Specifically, Gitea is in desperate need of full-time maintainers (and probably a part-time project manager), and I see this as an essential step to creating the necessary governance for that. I remain cautiously optimistic and would encourage everyone who is passionate about the project to raise their concerns and wishes in a constructive way. Another fork would be a disaster for the entire ecosystem and I think should only happen if there really are SIGNIFICANTLY diverging interests in the project. I also haven't heard anything in the gitea threads about crypto, so I think they're just referring to bounties and other distributed payments.
- remram 4y ago
  I have nothing against creating a company. It's probably a good development, unless that company does something really weird like shilling blockchain stuff. Having professional support is great and makes sense since both GitLab and GitHub have managed on-premise options too.
tucnak 4y ago
[flagged]
- viraptor 4y ago
  > It could be some poor girl from Iran That's not something a serious, registered company would risk given known sanctions against Iran. A random scam dao maybe doesn't care, but I suspect gitea does.
  - tucnak 4y ago
    Serious, registered company wouldn't know— who is that on the receiving end of the bargain and therefore can't be held responsible for it; that's exactly the point why this technology is so beautiful and why it will ultimately prevail.
    - viraptor 4y ago
      That's not how law works, you can't just look the other way. If you distribute money to random people without restrictions, records, or knowing who they are, that's called money laundering. That's what crypto tumblers are.
      - tucnak 4y ago
        Good luck bringing an open source DAO to court :-)
        viraptor 4y ago
        Setting up a dao doesn't magically cut you off from any legal liability. See https://www.skadden.com/insights/publications/2022/05/putative-class-action-lawsuit-alleges-dao-members https://www.skadden.com/insights/publications/2022/05/putati... and https://www.skadden.com/insights/publications/2022/10/cftc-settles-claims https://www.skadden.com/insights/publications/2022/10/cftc-s... The fun part is: "CFTC’s order first finds that virtual currencies traded on the bZx Protocol, including ETH and DAI, are “commodities” under the CEA.", which is close to "It's cute you set up your daos and automated protocols, but legally that's irrelevant." Regarding ignoring the identity: "The order further finds that the Ooki DAO failed to adopt a customer identification program, in violation of the Bank Secrecy Act and the Commission regulations promulgated thereunder."
throwaccount12 4y ago
- BrandoElFollito 4y ago
  How do you know their name?
  - throwaccount12 4y ago
    I went to their profile, and also followed the link they posted to the public donations to connect them.
- remram 4y ago
  No, it's not. I have stopped donating from this account, not that it's any of your business. Posting from a throwaway account and tracking down other people's donation history is REALLY f'd up, by the way.
anotherrandom 4y ago
They didn't mention any currency creation, they only mentioned the creation of a DAO. That's a far cry from trying to make a currency
- techknowlogick 4y ago
  Hi, I'm the author of the post. That is correct, I mentioned a DAO as a possible way we are investigating for empowering the community, we are very much not trying to make a new currency.

by remram 4y ago

slbtty 4y ago

They don't even mention a single thing about crypto?

remram 4y ago
They mention "a decentralized autonomous organization" which is a blockchain invention (a "smart contract" thingie): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralized_autonomous_organization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralized_autonomous_organ...
- leppr 4y ago
  The term DAO as it's used now is orthogonal to blockchain and crypto. It's mostly a term to describe codified governance/community systems. There may be point systems implemented via crypto tokens, but in the vast majority of cases those would be better implemented on centralized ledgers since there's someone with centralized control over either the token issuance, the communication channels, or other essential resources. If they were developed now, Stack Overflow and Wikipedia would be considered DAOs.
  - stonogo 4y ago
    That would just indicate the term 'DAO' doesn't mean anything at all. I'm unable to find an actual example of anything calling itself a DAO which doesn't also play with cryptocurrency tokens, so I'm pretty sure the term isn't used outside of that fanbase.
  - bongobingo1 4y ago
    The term crypto as it's used now is orthogonal to crypto. ducks
  - WorldMaker 4y ago
    Stack Overflow was developed as (and is still operated as) a for-profit/profit-motivated Corporation (Stack Exchange Inc.). No one considers it a DAO in any form, especially not the "autonomous" part. Unless you mean the gamified community elements, but you can't really call that an "organization" either because it's entirely disorganized (and sometimes highly dysfunctional) beyond the game mechanics and more importantly extremely centralized to Stack Overflow's servers. Wikipedia is run as a not-for-profit Foundation (Wikimedia Foundation). It doesn't seem anything like DAO either. Again, unless you mean the community of contributors to Wikipedia, and that also is extremely centralized to Wikipedia servers and doesn't have anything resembling "autonomous", not even something resembling Stack Overflow's game mechanics. The "autonomous" in DAO still only means "smart contracts" and no one is using DAO as a term for traditional corporate structures other than those intentionally confused by or wishing to confuse what "autonomous" means in the acronym.
- ddevault 4y ago
  One of the sponsors listed on their home page is also blockchain-related.
la_fayette 4y ago
DAO
weikju 4y ago
shows how much the term "decentralized" got hijacked by scams... Or well.. DAO. Likely means blockchain bs.
2pEXgD0fZ5cF 4y ago
> we are experimenting with creating a decentralized autonomous organization where contributors would receive benefits based on their participation Also in their footer: > Sponsored by INBlockchain, Equinix Metal, Two Sigma, SoEBeS, Allspice, Towhee, Hostea, Jeff Moe, and all of our backers on Open Collective.

cycomanic 4y ago

I'm confused, they don't mention crypto. This blog post is simply an announcement that they started a company. The purpose seems to mainly be for providing support services and paying developers. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that.

throwaccount12 4y ago
It does mention DAO, which is crypto adjacent, however like you said the purpose listed in the post is to provide paid support services, the DAO is for governance of the community, not to shill some scam crypto coin.
- viraptor 4y ago
  Whatever the official purpose is going to be, there will be lots of people trading the relevant token and people who got it first are going to cash out during one of the many pump and dumps. And the "why aren't you collaborating with (whatever Web3 project)" / "why aren't you promoting the token more" spam will start too. I've seen it before and it's not going to be pretty.
- WorldMaker 4y ago
  I don't think a DAO is just cryptocurrency adjacent. A DAO is entirely about trading traditional, well known, corporate structures (boards, shares, Robert's Rules, ballot voting) and replacing them all with cryptocurrency structures (NFT token holders, NFT tokens, "Smart" Contracts, more "Smart" Contracts). There is no DAO without cryptocurrency. There's no token trading or smart contract operations without trading in whatever cryptocoins underpin their DAO's platform of choice. If you think all cryptocoins are a scam to shill in one way or another, there's no DAO operations at all without shilling at least one scam cryptocoin (and usually there's more than one involved on every current platform that supports "smart" contracts). Meanwhile there are existing open-source foundations and conservancies that operate just fine as traditional (not-for-profit) corporations and no need for a DAO or any cryptocurrencies for community governance.

vbezhenar 4y ago

Recently I researched a little bit about this Gogs and Gitea situation. Here's what I've got: Gogs is maintained by a single person. He was reluctant to accept external contributions, so Gitea was forked. Now Gitea is very active with lots of contributors and more features, but Gogs is still maintained and does have many necessary features. We were migrating from GitLab, so I considered to install Gogs, we decided to go with GitHub unfortunately.

bioemerl 4y ago
What inspired you to migrate away from GitLab?

kdumont 4y ago

I've also been a contributor to Gitea, but it's not time yet to call the banners. I don't think this announcement was handled particularly well, but nonetheless, I think it's an important development for gitea to grow and become sustainable. Specifically, Gitea is in desperate need of full-time maintainers (and probably a part-time project manager), and I see this as an essential step to creating the necessary governance for that. I remain cautiously optimistic and would encourage everyone who is passionate about the project to raise their concerns and wishes in a constructive way. Another fork would be a disaster for the entire ecosystem and I think should only happen if there really are SIGNIFICANTLY diverging interests in the project. I also haven't heard anything in the gitea threads about crypto, so I think they're just referring to bounties and other distributed payments.

remram 4y ago
I have nothing against creating a company. It's probably a good development, unless that company does something really weird like shilling blockchain stuff. Having professional support is great and makes sense since both GitLab and GitHub have managed on-premise options too.

tucnak 4y ago

[flagged]

viraptor 4y ago
> It could be some poor girl from Iran That's not something a serious, registered company would risk given known sanctions against Iran. A random scam dao maybe doesn't care, but I suspect gitea does.
- tucnak 4y ago
  Serious, registered company wouldn't know— who is that on the receiving end of the bargain and therefore can't be held responsible for it; that's exactly the point why this technology is so beautiful and why it will ultimately prevail.
  - viraptor 4y ago
    That's not how law works, you can't just look the other way. If you distribute money to random people without restrictions, records, or knowing who they are, that's called money laundering. That's what crypto tumblers are.
    - tucnak 4y ago
      Good luck bringing an open source DAO to court :-)
      - viraptor 4y ago
        Setting up a dao doesn't magically cut you off from any legal liability. See https://www.skadden.com/insights/publications/2022/05/putative-class-action-lawsuit-alleges-dao-members https://www.skadden.com/insights/publications/2022/05/putati... and https://www.skadden.com/insights/publications/2022/10/cftc-settles-claims https://www.skadden.com/insights/publications/2022/10/cftc-s... The fun part is: "CFTC’s order first finds that virtual currencies traded on the bZx Protocol, including ETH and DAI, are “commodities” under the CEA.", which is close to "It's cute you set up your daos and automated protocols, but legally that's irrelevant." Regarding ignoring the identity: "The order further finds that the Ooki DAO failed to adopt a customer identification program, in violation of the Bank Secrecy Act and the Commission regulations promulgated thereunder."

throwaccount12 4y ago

BrandoElFollito 4y ago
How do you know their name?
- throwaccount12 4y ago
  I went to their profile, and also followed the link they posted to the public donations to connect them.
remram 4y ago
No, it's not. I have stopped donating from this account, not that it's any of your business. Posting from a throwaway account and tracking down other people's donation history is REALLY f'd up, by the way.

anotherrandom 4y ago

They didn't mention any currency creation, they only mentioned the creation of a DAO. That's a far cry from trying to make a currency

techknowlogick 4y ago
Hi, I'm the author of the post. That is correct, I mentioned a DAO as a possible way we are investigating for empowering the community, we are very much not trying to make a new currency.