3 ms·

Democrats withdraw letter asking Biden to tie Ukraine funding to basic diplomacy

10 points by miguelazo 4y ago

miguelazo 4y ago
The extremely mild letter: https://progressives.house.gov/_cache/files/5/5/5523c5cc-4028-4c46-8ee1-b56c7101c764/B7B3674EFB12D933EA4A2B97C7405DD4.10-24-22-cpc-letter-for-diplomacy-on-russia-ukraine-conflict.pdf https://progressives.house.gov/_cache/files/5/5/5523c5cc-402...
- metadat 4y ago
  Is it mild to encourage the USGOV to explore direct engagement with Russia?
  - AnimalMuppet 4y ago
    In general? Yes, that's mild. Also sane. On this issue? It's got a flavor of paternalism, of "US and Russia will decide the fate of Ukraine, who has no say in the matter". It also fits in perfectly with Russia's mindset - "Russia is a great power, and Ukraine isn't, so of course Russia gets to drive tanks over Ukraine. Russia's interests must be respected, but Ukraine's don't have to be." The US has done well to avoid any hint of that. They would do well to continue that way.
    - miguelazo 4y ago
      Laughable given that Ukraine had already negotiated a settlement with Russia early in the war and the US nixed it. Every serious person who follows this closely knows that the US is the principal obstacle to a diplomatic solution (hence the letter)— has been since well before February. Just ask the European leaders whose diplomatic deals were also ruined by the US. The US is in this to enrich its defense contractors and weaken Russia according to the game plan devised by RAND called Extending Russia— it is using Ukrainian lives and infrastructure to advance those goals, so it has no interest in peace.
      - _kbh_ 4y ago
        > Laughable given that Ukraine had already negotiated a settlement with Russia early in the war and the US nixed it. Can you link to a source for this?.
        miguelazo 4y ago
        Certainly. This was only the most high profile incident. https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/05/06/boris-johnson-pressured-zelenskyy-ditch-peace-talks-russia-ukrainian-paper https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/05/06/boris-johnson-p...
        _kbh_ 4y ago
        > Certainly. This was only the most high profile incident. https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/05/06/boris-johnson-p https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/05/06/boris-johnson-p... It looks like the article is being misinterpreted. Here’s a comment from the author. > Romaniuk disagrees with Eagleton’s interpretation that Johnson halted the peace deal. “Johnson was one of the people whom Zelensky listened to – not because of a dependence on him, but because of relations of trust”, Romaniuk told us. > Britain’s prime minister hadn’t come to Kyiv to order a termination of the peace deal; this was advice at best, and as such, his scepticism about Russia’s trustworthiness wasn’t unique. > There were strong concerns within Zelensky’s closest entourage that the Kremlin wouldn’t stick to an agreement for any longer than it suited its interests. The risks of signing the Istanbul agreement were high for Ukraine: key provisions, to do with the status of Donbas and Crimea, couldn’t be agreed until a later meeting between the presidents of the two states. > Zelensky and his negotiators’ most important worry about the Istanbul agreement was, Romaniuk said, that “Ukrainian society might not accept such a deal”. > While we don’t know what public opinion was regarding the possible deal in early April, in a survey conducted in mid-May, 82% said that “under no circumstance should Ukraine give up on any of its territory even if it leads to the continuation of the war and threatens its independence”. https://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article7852 https://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article7852
        4y ago
  - miguelazo 4y ago
    If you are being rational instead of emotionally driven by “Putin is Hitler” nonsense, absolutely. Further, Ukraine had already negotiated a settlement with Russia back in April. The US torpedoed it, sending their errand boy Boris Johnson to deliver the message to Zelensky. That was reported even by the Ukrainian press.
legitster 4y ago
They are claiming it was a draft from months ago accidentally released, despite having a press conference and everything for it.
- miguelazo 4y ago
  It’s obvious that they just chickened out after some phone calls were made. Pathetic, but not surprising in a country where the press refuses to report the most basic facts about the war, like the fact that Ukraine is shelling the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant. You don’t shell the power plant you’re occupying , nor do you blow up the pipeline you have spent billions to construct, especially when it helps link you to Germany (something the US always hated).

10 points by miguelazo 4y ago

The extremely mild letter: https://progressives.house.gov/_cache/files/5/5/5523c5cc-4028-4c46-8ee1-b56c7101c764/B7B3674EFB12D933EA4A2B97C7405DD4.10-24-22-cpc-letter-for-diplomacy-on-russia-ukraine-conflict.pdf https://progressives.house.gov/_cache/files/5/5/5523c5cc-402...

metadat 4y ago
Is it mild to encourage the USGOV to explore direct engagement with Russia?
- AnimalMuppet 4y ago
  In general? Yes, that's mild. Also sane. On this issue? It's got a flavor of paternalism, of "US and Russia will decide the fate of Ukraine, who has no say in the matter". It also fits in perfectly with Russia's mindset - "Russia is a great power, and Ukraine isn't, so of course Russia gets to drive tanks over Ukraine. Russia's interests must be respected, but Ukraine's don't have to be." The US has done well to avoid any hint of that. They would do well to continue that way.
  - miguelazo 4y ago
    Laughable given that Ukraine had already negotiated a settlement with Russia early in the war and the US nixed it. Every serious person who follows this closely knows that the US is the principal obstacle to a diplomatic solution (hence the letter)— has been since well before February. Just ask the European leaders whose diplomatic deals were also ruined by the US. The US is in this to enrich its defense contractors and weaken Russia according to the game plan devised by RAND called Extending Russia— it is using Ukrainian lives and infrastructure to advance those goals, so it has no interest in peace.
    - _kbh_ 4y ago
      > Laughable given that Ukraine had already negotiated a settlement with Russia early in the war and the US nixed it. Can you link to a source for this?.
      - miguelazo 4y ago
        Certainly. This was only the most high profile incident. https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/05/06/boris-johnson-pressured-zelenskyy-ditch-peace-talks-russia-ukrainian-paper https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/05/06/boris-johnson-p...
        _kbh_ 4y ago
        > Certainly. This was only the most high profile incident. https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/05/06/boris-johnson-p https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/05/06/boris-johnson-p... It looks like the article is being misinterpreted. Here’s a comment from the author. > Romaniuk disagrees with Eagleton’s interpretation that Johnson halted the peace deal. “Johnson was one of the people whom Zelensky listened to – not because of a dependence on him, but because of relations of trust”, Romaniuk told us. > Britain’s prime minister hadn’t come to Kyiv to order a termination of the peace deal; this was advice at best, and as such, his scepticism about Russia’s trustworthiness wasn’t unique. > There were strong concerns within Zelensky’s closest entourage that the Kremlin wouldn’t stick to an agreement for any longer than it suited its interests. The risks of signing the Istanbul agreement were high for Ukraine: key provisions, to do with the status of Donbas and Crimea, couldn’t be agreed until a later meeting between the presidents of the two states. > Zelensky and his negotiators’ most important worry about the Istanbul agreement was, Romaniuk said, that “Ukrainian society might not accept such a deal”. > While we don’t know what public opinion was regarding the possible deal in early April, in a survey conducted in mid-May, 82% said that “under no circumstance should Ukraine give up on any of its territory even if it leads to the continuation of the war and threatens its independence”. https://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article7852 https://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article7852
        4y ago
- miguelazo 4y ago
  If you are being rational instead of emotionally driven by “Putin is Hitler” nonsense, absolutely. Further, Ukraine had already negotiated a settlement with Russia back in April. The US torpedoed it, sending their errand boy Boris Johnson to deliver the message to Zelensky. That was reported even by the Ukrainian press.

legitster 4y ago

They are claiming it was a draft from months ago accidentally released, despite having a press conference and everything for it.

miguelazo 4y ago
It’s obvious that they just chickened out after some phone calls were made. Pathetic, but not surprising in a country where the press refuses to report the most basic facts about the war, like the fact that Ukraine is shelling the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant. You don’t shell the power plant you’re occupying , nor do you blow up the pipeline you have spent billions to construct, especially when it helps link you to Germany (something the US always hated).