4 ms·

I know that things don't work as well as they should here, but to my ears this opinion piece sounds more like parody than reality. Take this line. >Take out

I know that things don't work as well as they should here, but to my ears this opinion piece sounds more like parody than reality. Take this line. >Take out Greater London—the prosperity of which depends to an uncomfortable degree on a willingness to provide services to oligarchs from the Middle East and the former Soviet Union— and the UK is one of the poorest countries in Western Europe.” Yes. London is a financial centre. A large portion of the GDP of the country is generated by it's biggest (main?) population centre. Is there a problem that london chooses to indulge in the more lucrative financial services over Victorian industry? Still, i do agree there are historical, major issues with lack of productivity and industry. The tories don't seem to have any vision for the economy future. They just throw money where its popular. I thought for a short while Liz Truss would be the answer, but she has turned up short in the IQ department, but i don't think its the picture of doom the atlantic thinks it is.

Gordonjcp 4y ago
- sealeck 4y ago
  Have _you_ ever been there? I've never seen that and I would not say London is a shithole (try walking around central London, e.g. Regent's Park, Hyde Park and surrounding area).
- FridayoLeary 4y ago
  I've lived here my whole life and i don't know what you're talking about.
- weavejester 4y ago
  I've never seen raw sewage running down the street. Admittedly I've not been everywhere in London, and some parts are better than others, but it doesn't seem any different from any other city I've been in. It feels cleaner than New York, for example.
  - makomk 4y ago
    The UK actually seems to do a better job of treating its sewage than other European countries. What happened is that a lot of the British press absolutely loathes the current government over Brexit and wants them booted out, so they created a narrative that our rivers and oceans are suddenly full of sewage based off the number of recorded overflows increasing due to much better monitoring. (The main problem is that the sewers are old, mix storm and waste water, and that overwhelms treatment capacity when it rains heavily. There's no easy way to fix it.) I guess one of those articles probably got mangled in repetition at some point. Meanwhile, other nearby countries that are EU members still have urban areas with no sewage treatment plants at all and just dump all their sewage into waterways in normal operation, something that's against EU rules and I'm pretty sure was stopped a long time ago in the UK. That doesn't get as much media coverage because it doesn't fit a useful narrative, though, to the point even people from thsoe countries are convinced their country is doing a better job. Also, this story largely originated in the Guardian, and it turns out prior to Brexit they were pushing the narrative that the big megaproject to 95% fix this in London was completely pointless and only served to channel cash to the Tories' pals, the problem wasn't really that bad and the overflows were mostly rain water anyway: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/nov/27/london-super-sewer-branded-waste-time-money https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/nov/27/london-s... This is, uh, rather different from the current narrative they're pushing.
    - weavejester 4y ago
      "What happened is that a lot of the British press absolutely loathes the current government over Brexit and wants them booted out" That makes it seem like the UK press is largely left leaning, when most of it is very much right leaning and usually pro-government in sentiment. The Mail has far more readers than the Guardian, for instance. The Sun more than the Mirror. The BBC, while historically left of centre, is nowadays pro-government after threats of funding cuts brought them to heel. There are a lot of reasons beyond Brexit to think the government is doing a poor job, though Brexit itself is obviously a huge point of contention.
- orf 4y ago
  Lived here for a decade and don’t know what you’re talking about. If I was to indulge this for even a second I’d point out this massive project sewage project involving 6 tunnel boring machines: https://www.tideway.london/the-tunnel/ https://www.tideway.london/the-tunnel/
- jen20 4y ago
  Where, exactly? A street name, preferably.
- mattkevan 4y ago
  You’re talking rubbish mate. Lived all over London for 20 years, including pre-gentrification Hackney and very gentrified parts of Lambeth and there’s never been anything like that. Not even in Croydon, and they’re feral.
sealeck 4y ago
The comment is also _completely_ without any substantial basis. Sure, London provides financial services, but there's no data provided to suggest that a substantial portion of London's economic activity is generated by providing services to shady individuals.
umeshunni 4y ago
What's even worse is this chart that the article is based on is: https://www.newstatesman.com/chart-of-the-day/2022/07/wages-fallen-behind-european-rivals https://www.newstatesman.com/chart-of-the-day/2022/07/wages-... Title: UK income has fallen significantly behind that of its rivals Actual data: Change in median disposable income I'll repeat my common comment that I wished I lived in a world where 'journalists' had to take basic math lessons.

Gordonjcp 4y ago

sealeck 4y ago
Have _you_ ever been there? I've never seen that and I would not say London is a shithole (try walking around central London, e.g. Regent's Park, Hyde Park and surrounding area).
FridayoLeary 4y ago
I've lived here my whole life and i don't know what you're talking about.
weavejester 4y ago
I've never seen raw sewage running down the street. Admittedly I've not been everywhere in London, and some parts are better than others, but it doesn't seem any different from any other city I've been in. It feels cleaner than New York, for example.
- makomk 4y ago
  The UK actually seems to do a better job of treating its sewage than other European countries. What happened is that a lot of the British press absolutely loathes the current government over Brexit and wants them booted out, so they created a narrative that our rivers and oceans are suddenly full of sewage based off the number of recorded overflows increasing due to much better monitoring. (The main problem is that the sewers are old, mix storm and waste water, and that overwhelms treatment capacity when it rains heavily. There's no easy way to fix it.) I guess one of those articles probably got mangled in repetition at some point. Meanwhile, other nearby countries that are EU members still have urban areas with no sewage treatment plants at all and just dump all their sewage into waterways in normal operation, something that's against EU rules and I'm pretty sure was stopped a long time ago in the UK. That doesn't get as much media coverage because it doesn't fit a useful narrative, though, to the point even people from thsoe countries are convinced their country is doing a better job. Also, this story largely originated in the Guardian, and it turns out prior to Brexit they were pushing the narrative that the big megaproject to 95% fix this in London was completely pointless and only served to channel cash to the Tories' pals, the problem wasn't really that bad and the overflows were mostly rain water anyway: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/nov/27/london-super-sewer-branded-waste-time-money https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/nov/27/london-s... This is, uh, rather different from the current narrative they're pushing.
  - weavejester 4y ago
    "What happened is that a lot of the British press absolutely loathes the current government over Brexit and wants them booted out" That makes it seem like the UK press is largely left leaning, when most of it is very much right leaning and usually pro-government in sentiment. The Mail has far more readers than the Guardian, for instance. The Sun more than the Mirror. The BBC, while historically left of centre, is nowadays pro-government after threats of funding cuts brought them to heel. There are a lot of reasons beyond Brexit to think the government is doing a poor job, though Brexit itself is obviously a huge point of contention.
orf 4y ago
Lived here for a decade and don’t know what you’re talking about. If I was to indulge this for even a second I’d point out this massive project sewage project involving 6 tunnel boring machines: https://www.tideway.london/the-tunnel/ https://www.tideway.london/the-tunnel/
jen20 4y ago
Where, exactly? A street name, preferably.
mattkevan 4y ago
You’re talking rubbish mate. Lived all over London for 20 years, including pre-gentrification Hackney and very gentrified parts of Lambeth and there’s never been anything like that. Not even in Croydon, and they’re feral.

sealeck 4y ago

The comment is also _completely_ without any substantial basis. Sure, London provides financial services, but there's no data provided to suggest that a substantial portion of London's economic activity is generated by providing services to shady individuals.

umeshunni 4y ago

What's even worse is this chart that the article is based on is: https://www.newstatesman.com/chart-of-the-day/2022/07/wages-fallen-behind-european-rivals https://www.newstatesman.com/chart-of-the-day/2022/07/wages-... Title: UK income has fallen significantly behind that of its rivals Actual data: Change in median disposable income I'll repeat my common comment that I wished I lived in a world where 'journalists' had to take basic math lessons.