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Huh. I'm a contractor. I just tell them what my rate is. Then they have to pay that, or cut my hours. There's very little in the way of 'negotiation'. In fact,

Huh. I'm a contractor. I just tell them what my rate is. Then they have to pay that, or cut my hours. There's very little in the way of 'negotiation'. In fact, the last two years require a rate bump of 25% just to beat inflation. You don't do that, you're losing ground.

pc86 4y ago
This is the correct way to do it. There is no "negotiation" when you're a contractor, except between you and the market in that broad hand-wavey sense. You set a rate. They have a budget. The rest is just math. The inflation number is absolutely wrong though. There obviously hasn't been nearly 25% inflation over the past 24 months.
- CoastalCoder 4y ago
  The concept of asking for a raise doesn't make sense to me even as a regular employee. If you need to beg for a raise, you're already in a bad negotiating position. The ideal situation is to figure out what you'd require to stay with your current employer, and see if they want to match that. You shouldn't need to care what their HR says is the "going rate" for your position, nor what the company has allocated for yearly raises. That's largely posturing on their part, and tells you little about how much they're willing to pay you if push comes to shove.
  - pc86 4y ago
    If you're at a toxic company, you will need to ask for every raise, and will only ever get less than you ask for. But I feel like this comment ignores the fact that companies do have budgets, and the people above you still have their own budgets and bosses to report to. If you work for a company (especially public or non-venture, especially non-tech) there will absolutely be a lot of cost controls and constraints around what is allocated to raises, new hire salaries, retention and signing bonuses, etc. It's exceedingly rare that the line manager has authority to give anyone a 20% raise when he's given a 4% budget increase across the board.
    - CoastalCoder 4y ago
      > But I feel like this comment ignores the fact that companies do have budgets, and the people above you still have their own budgets and bosses to report to. I didn't mean to imply that those factors aren't real. Rather, I was recommending that employees try to avoid being in a situation where those factors matter to the employee. Ideally you're aware of your options, and prepared to change jobs if it's in your interest. Unless you're personally invested in the employer, it's just business.
- samstave 4y ago
  >>The inflation number is absolutely wrong though. There obviously hasn't been nearly 25% inflation over the past 24 months. Uhm, have you been to the grocery store of late? Inflation is damn near 40% Certain items I buy one the regular have gone up a minimum of 25% Look at fucking gas prices.
  - pc86 4y ago
    Yes, "look at fucking gas prices" to see the inflation-adjusted price has been stable and slightly decreasing for well over two decades. [0] Your anecdotes about whatever random nonsense you're buying are irrelevant. Inflation is in the mid-to-high single digits. 25% a year for two consecutive years is a categorically false assertion. [0] https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/gasoline-prices-adjusted-for-inflation/ https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/gasoline-prices-adjust...
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  > The inflation number is absolutely wrong though. There obviously hasn't been nearly 25% inflation over the past 24 months. Sure—judging from my grocery and gas bills, it's higher than that.
  - all2 4y ago
    Unironically, food and fuel aren't including in US inflation numbers. Because reasons.
    - dustincoates 4y ago
      This isn't even remotely true. You can see what goes into the CPI, and food is the #2 category after shelter. Motor fuel is included in transportation. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/01/24/as-inflation-soars-a-look-at-whats-inside-the-consumer-price-index/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/01/24/as-inflatio... https://www.bls.gov/cpi/factsheets/motor-fuel.htm https://www.bls.gov/cpi/factsheets/motor-fuel.htm
      - all2 4y ago
        Now I'm confused. [0] states that food and fuel are exempt for the "Core Inflation" metric calculation because they are historically volatile. > Core inflation is the change in the costs of goods and services but does not include those from the food and fuel sectors. This measure of inflation excludes these items because their prices are much more volatile. It is most often calculated using the consumer price index (CPI), which is a measure of prices for goods and services. > The Fed prefers to use the PCE index rather than CPI since PCE tends to provide inflation trends that are less affected by short-term price changes. Also, the Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA), a division of the Department of Commerce, calculates the change of prices by using existing gross domestic product (GDP) data, which helps to determine an overall trend in prices. [0] https://www.livetradingnews.com/what-is-core-inflation-and-why-food-fuel-are-exempt-211633.html https://www.livetradingnews.com/what-is-core-inflation-and-w...
        4y ago
- JoeAltmaier 4y ago
  https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-rates/ https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-infl...
  - pc86 4y ago
    Where are the two years of 25% inflation?
    - JoeAltmaier 4y ago
      "There hasn't been near 25% inflation..." The last two years alone add up to 16%. The next year looks to be similar. Though I admit, I posted the wrong number - I have to raise my rate by $25/hr to keep up. I wrote that number instead of 16% which is what we've had to eat in the last two years.
- rdtwo 4y ago
  Yeah closer to 35 so 25 is the low end
- 8n4vidtmkvmk 4y ago
  hasn't it been 9.5% in the US in the last year? i can believe 18 over 2 years

pc86 4y ago

This is the correct way to do it. There is no "negotiation" when you're a contractor, except between you and the market in that broad hand-wavey sense. You set a rate. They have a budget. The rest is just math. The inflation number is absolutely wrong though. There obviously hasn't been nearly 25% inflation over the past 24 months.

CoastalCoder 4y ago
The concept of asking for a raise doesn't make sense to me even as a regular employee. If you need to beg for a raise, you're already in a bad negotiating position. The ideal situation is to figure out what you'd require to stay with your current employer, and see if they want to match that. You shouldn't need to care what their HR says is the "going rate" for your position, nor what the company has allocated for yearly raises. That's largely posturing on their part, and tells you little about how much they're willing to pay you if push comes to shove.
- pc86 4y ago
  If you're at a toxic company, you will need to ask for every raise, and will only ever get less than you ask for. But I feel like this comment ignores the fact that companies do have budgets, and the people above you still have their own budgets and bosses to report to. If you work for a company (especially public or non-venture, especially non-tech) there will absolutely be a lot of cost controls and constraints around what is allocated to raises, new hire salaries, retention and signing bonuses, etc. It's exceedingly rare that the line manager has authority to give anyone a 20% raise when he's given a 4% budget increase across the board.
  - CoastalCoder 4y ago
    > But I feel like this comment ignores the fact that companies do have budgets, and the people above you still have their own budgets and bosses to report to. I didn't mean to imply that those factors aren't real. Rather, I was recommending that employees try to avoid being in a situation where those factors matter to the employee. Ideally you're aware of your options, and prepared to change jobs if it's in your interest. Unless you're personally invested in the employer, it's just business.
samstave 4y ago
>>The inflation number is absolutely wrong though. There obviously hasn't been nearly 25% inflation over the past 24 months. Uhm, have you been to the grocery store of late? Inflation is damn near 40% Certain items I buy one the regular have gone up a minimum of 25% Look at fucking gas prices.
- pc86 4y ago
  Yes, "look at fucking gas prices" to see the inflation-adjusted price has been stable and slightly decreasing for well over two decades. [0] Your anecdotes about whatever random nonsense you're buying are irrelevant. Inflation is in the mid-to-high single digits. 25% a year for two consecutive years is a categorically false assertion. [0] https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/gasoline-prices-adjusted-for-inflation/ https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/gasoline-prices-adjust...
yamtaddle 4y ago
> The inflation number is absolutely wrong though. There obviously hasn't been nearly 25% inflation over the past 24 months. Sure—judging from my grocery and gas bills, it's higher than that.
- all2 4y ago
  Unironically, food and fuel aren't including in US inflation numbers. Because reasons.
  - dustincoates 4y ago
    This isn't even remotely true. You can see what goes into the CPI, and food is the #2 category after shelter. Motor fuel is included in transportation. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/01/24/as-inflation-soars-a-look-at-whats-inside-the-consumer-price-index/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/01/24/as-inflatio... https://www.bls.gov/cpi/factsheets/motor-fuel.htm https://www.bls.gov/cpi/factsheets/motor-fuel.htm
    - all2 4y ago
      Now I'm confused. [0] states that food and fuel are exempt for the "Core Inflation" metric calculation because they are historically volatile. > Core inflation is the change in the costs of goods and services but does not include those from the food and fuel sectors. This measure of inflation excludes these items because their prices are much more volatile. It is most often calculated using the consumer price index (CPI), which is a measure of prices for goods and services. > The Fed prefers to use the PCE index rather than CPI since PCE tends to provide inflation trends that are less affected by short-term price changes. Also, the Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA), a division of the Department of Commerce, calculates the change of prices by using existing gross domestic product (GDP) data, which helps to determine an overall trend in prices. [0] https://www.livetradingnews.com/what-is-core-inflation-and-why-food-fuel-are-exempt-211633.html https://www.livetradingnews.com/what-is-core-inflation-and-w...
      - 4y ago
JoeAltmaier 4y ago
https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-rates/ https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-infl...
- pc86 4y ago
  Where are the two years of 25% inflation?
  - JoeAltmaier 4y ago
    "There hasn't been near 25% inflation..." The last two years alone add up to 16%. The next year looks to be similar. Though I admit, I posted the wrong number - I have to raise my rate by $25/hr to keep up. I wrote that number instead of 16% which is what we've had to eat in the last two years.
rdtwo 4y ago
Yeah closer to 35 so 25 is the low end
8n4vidtmkvmk 4y ago
hasn't it been 9.5% in the US in the last year? i can believe 18 over 2 years